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In which case maybe the Americans should get a taste of reality and come back down to earth. Billions of people around the world would kill to be in a situation where they are an American citizen making $16 an hour and owing $100k. If these complainers had any special talents then maybe they would have a point but these people tend to be bog standard "generic human units" with nothing going for them at all.
There's nothing "American," about being an economic migrant. Very few of the people who would work hard to get here, come for the unique American identity and experience. They're seeking a material quality of life that isn't comparable to what they currently have. Those that have it where they are, don't look with so much envy to the US.
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I think we’re mostly on the same page here. The problem isn’t necessarily the reality being horrible and tbh if you’re willing to live in a lower cost region it’s probably fine. But when you put that next to what TV told you you would have, it feels like a let down because vulture has told you lies, basically. You are sold fantasies about the world of the adult. Doing what you like, for 99% of the planet is a delusional idea because unless you are extraordinarily talented you won’t even get through whatever the front door is. The vast majority of people who want to do anything related to the arts have a hobby. You won’t be paid for it, and everyone with a brain knows it. Every once in a great while there’s a unicorn, someone who manages to break through enough to make enough to quit the day job. It’s not sold that way, but it’s true. Likewise the idea of what you will have as a lifestyle in adulthood is wildly skewed. The median income is 50K nationwide. You cannot buy a large house and take lavish vacations and wear fashionable clothing on that income.
The problem isn’t the reality. The problem is that we tell everyone that they are awesome, that they will have an upper class lifestyle, doing a job that they’re passionate about, have time off and all kinds of bells and whistles. Most people won’t even come close. And then they feel miserable because they don’t understand that they’re doing just fine. If they were sold on something reasonable (a small apartment, a shitty job, and an occasional trip to a nearby campsite) they’d probably be fine with that. But the difference between the narrative and reality (on most fronts tbh, as the guy pointed out with dating) makes reality seem terrible.
What's worse is that even if you understand it, you can't make other people understand it. I may understand that I have a great lifestyle by historical and international standards, and that even by national standards my lifestyle is at worst average. My family don't, and are disappointed that I am not the kind of average that is depicted in media. Women sure as fuck don't understand; they are resentful of a husband that does not make at least six figures and takes them out to expensive restaurants and exotic vacations.
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Happiness is a function of relative status, not absolute economic utility.
For the billions around the world, $16/hour in an unglamorous job would increase their status relative to their neighbors. For an American, $16/hour in an unglamorous job feels perilously low status compared to one's (fictional, learned from advertisements and social media) neighbors. You criticize them harshly as wanting special privileges, but in their mind they are mainly seeking to clear to a respectability threshold.
The problem underlying a great many problems in society — education, purchasing decisions, family formation — is the dangerous gap between the popular perception of average and the reality of average.
One thing I always thought was pretty funny on Reddit, was the way conversations devolved into hurling insults after it was clear one side of the discussion was losing the argument.
I effectively checked out of American society a long time ago, and looked with envy to other countries that were considerably less rich (i.e. Russia, Southeast Asia, pockets of Latin America), as a place where I was happier and lived in relative conditions more suitable to my lifestyle. When it came to laying that out on the table and why other countries might have more to offer and have other advantages over the US, the mockery always ensured with, "what, you gonna' b a broke Ruski gettin' sent to the front lines of Ukraine!," to which my response was always, "... as opposed to what? Paying $4,000 a month to live in a shoebox in the progressive heartland of the Bay Area, where you're persecuted for your political views?" I'd willingly go to war for a tribe and homecoming that's uniquely absent from a homeland that willfully hollowed itself out and transitioned into becoming a marketplace.
There's more to one's happiness than money at the end of the day.
have you migrated to either?
It seems to me that you are shitposting for shock value. You mention paying $4,000 a month for rent, that is enough to buy a plane ticket. Note: I am not recommanding doing this.
And you mention conditions more suitable to your lifestyle, not just that you would prefer to be born there.
I will take shoebox over trench, thank you. (as described, neither is nice but it sounds to me you underestimate awfulness of war)
note: I would be willing to take part in war in defence of something I value
Seems more to me like you have a hard time comprehending that some people don't think the US is all it's cracked up to be.
I'm curious, do you think most Africans still live in mud huts too?
No? As evidenced by fact that I am nor trying to move there.
I am just asking how seriously you believe your own claim that trench in Ukraine is superior to renting room in Bay Area.
I think you are trolling/shitposting/lying and you do not actually believe that Russia or trench in Ukraine is superior to your life in USA. But if you are taking steps to emigrate to one of places you mentioned I could admire consistency at least.
(it is hard to take seriously someone who considers trench on frontline being superior place to life in USA, even Bay Area)
Construction materials used in Africa have no relation to how awful war is (especially drone/artillery flavoured trenches).
And no, I am not expecting mud to be dominating material nowadays.
Except for when you criticized me for "not preferring to have been born there." A statement I never made, hinted at, or even remotely gestured toward.
And I'm saying the reason you're confused is because you missed the principle the example is meant it illustrate and took the example itself too literally and ran with it.
Which wasn't the point I was making.
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Still the ratio between people coming to US and people leaving speaks for itself.
Seeing people voting with their legs is about the only objective measure of oppression that exists. Genuinely oppressed people are running away from their persecutors (if they have the opportunity, most oppressed people in history had nowhere to go).
Not anymore, most Africans now live in favela style housing in mega cities. Hellish by our standards, paradisical by standards of their previous village life.
Considering it's much harder to be an economic migrant in other countries, this is unsurprising. Sounds like parasites found an easier target.
In a country where it's significantly easier to immigrate to? This is one of the things native born Americas cite in favor of the declining QOL of this country, of which I happen to agree. It's pretty strange why I should see this as a net benefit to living in this country.
Yeah, that one went right over your head, didn't it?
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If you never found your tribe and home in USA, what makes you think Russia would be any different? I can tell you from experience there isn't any more magical sovl in Russian people than the Westerners. Not obvious, at least.
Because I've got quite a good rapport and camaraderie with Russian people that I've known my whole life?
And none with Americans? Or is it that your rapport with Americans left you with the impression that they can't be your tribe?
From where I'm standing, one may convince themselves to think they're "fighting for the Russian tribe". They may even die happy. However, this worldview won't be aligned with reality.
Well let's be fair. This country gave up on me long before I did on it.
And no, I've got plenty of friends who are Americans, who are every bit as disillusioned with the country as I am. But I'm quite curious to know what the best self-aggrandizing vanity pitch for the US is, since it's one of America's favorite pastimes. I doubt it'll be any better than mine, which is also an abject failure.
I'm not in position to argue in favour of America's national idea. All I can say is that if you're looking for a country that won't give up on you, Russia would not be in my top list of suggestions. It is throwing men away to secure a meager buffer zone that I can't imagine actually being vital as we speak. I suppose you could achieve the authenticity of "fighting for your country" if you specifically immigrated to the newly occupied territories that are being fought for.
And considering the conflicts the US rampages across the world starting, it too, has little problem throwing away it's citizens for false ideals, against people who've never done a thing against them. At least Russia has the good sense to throw their people away defending their own borders.
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$4000 gets you a lot more than a shoebox even in the Bay area (depending on which town exactly), and it sure beats getting exploded by a quadcopter in a frozen shithole you don't care about.
The US has it's problems but contrary to popular belief you don't have to live in the Bay area. I can't help but notice that you are posting on the motte instead of sitting in a trench in eastern Ukraine so it seems you didn't find that option too appealing either.
$4,000 couldn't even get you a run down crack house in San Francisco.
Whoever's doing that isn't doing it right. You can live rich in a poor country or live poor in a rich country. That's if money's your only concern. There's little pride I have in being American in 2023.
I don't live in the Bay Area anymore. And unlike plenty of Americans, I've experienced the world, and lived abroad. The world does exist outside the shadow the mainstream media loves to cast over other nation's.
The Bay area is not San Francisco.
$4000, 1000 square feet, not a crack house. https://www.zillow.com/apartments/san-francisco-ca/one-henry-adams/9NJvHk/
Why make easily falsifiable claims with no basis in reality?
How much pride do you have in being Russian in 2023? Keep in mind you will never be a real Russian and the Russian elite is just as degenerate as the West.
It's weird to read this when you equated the entire country to San Francisco.
Ah. I stand corrected. I can find two, one bathroom shoeboxes for $1,000 less, right now. Further inventory is currently unavailable until later this year.
Is that better?
I'm not Russian, and yet they still have more reasons to be prideful then I currently see in much of the west. And believe it or not, Russia today isn't 'as corrupt' as you think it is for the average citizen. And saying it's only as bad as the west is quite sad, truly.
What's wrong with placing the focus on the trendsetters of the country? Would you prefer NYC instead which is even worse?
Huh? Here's a $3200 place with 1000 square feet.
https://www.zillow.com/apartments/san-francisco-ca/bennett-lofts/5Xrcx6/#unit-2090981227
Again, what exactly is the complaint here? Yeah it's expensive, but we're pretty far from grousing about $4k shoeboxes. The goalposts have well and truly moved.
I know you are not Russian. The grass is always greener. The question is why you'd prefer living in a society where you'll always be a foreigner and whose main selling point is being based and trad in the eyes of the extremely online.
The daily concerns of my military age male Russian relatives are how to avoid getting sent to Ukraine (though in the near past it seems the pressganging has abated). They are not so preoccupied with national pride. The boomers are definitely feeling good though, my mother got berated by her aged aunt (who was like a mother to her) for not agreeing with the party line.
I don't understand why you insist on complaining about the most progressive and atomized parts of the country. Move away from the coast. Find a wife. Start a family. Touch the grass. That will serve you much better than idolizing places that want nothing to do with you.
The first problem here is that you missed the principle the example is only meant to illustrate, and you got lost in the details.
As opposed to being a foreigner in my own country? Incidentally my viewpoints are much more complex and nuanced than a right-wing meme thread you can find on Kiwi Farms. Regardless if you agree with them or not.
Sounds like your Russian relatives would find themselves more at home in America. No different that what others would tell me, if I don't like it here, I can go move somewhere else. However I might find myself at home with them, strangely. It's difficult to respect someone who isn't willing to fought for their country, then again if I got drafted over here, I'd refuse to fight for the US.
I'm not sitting here whining and complaining about anything. And quit being so patronizing. Especially in absence of knowing hardly a single thing about me.
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