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ymeskhout  14d ago (text post)   4002 thread views

The Bailey Podcast E036: White Right

Listen on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Podcast Addict, and RSS.

In this episode, we talk about white nationalism.

Participants: Yassine, Walt Bismarck, TracingWoodgrains.

Links:

Why I'm no longer a White Nationalist (The Walt Right)

The Virulently Unapologetic Racism of "Anti-Racism" (Yassine Meskhout)

Hajnal Line (Wikipedia)

Fall In Line Parody Song (Walt Bismarck)

Richard Spencer's post-Charlottesville tirade (Twitter)

The Metapolitics of Black-White Conflict (The Walt Right)

America Has Black Nationalism, Not Balkanization (Richard Hanania)

Recorded 2024-04-13 | Uploaded 2024-04-14

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So I read the "The Metapolitics..." article that is linked and while I can agree with its arguments largely, I found this part:

But when a white person has kids with a black person the kids will almost always see themselves as black. This isn’t “the cultural legacy of the One Drop Rule,” it’s the obvious fact that black people have much more dominant genes than everyone else.

...which strikes me as kind of pseudo-scientific nonsense.

The obvious reason those kids will see themselves as black is that the Spanish/Hispanic (and, I guess, French/Francophone) cultural sphere, unlike the North American Anglo-Saxon one, includes the concepts of mestizo and mulatto, and accordingly lacks the legal concept of the white race as the separate and dominant racial group, which originates from Virginia in the late 17th Century, as far as I know. It has everything to do with the cultural legacy of the One Drop Rule. Those kids, if born in Britain, France or Spain etc., will not see themselves as nonwhite, because their societies lack the concept of whiteness as an identity.

That article confused me. It feels like it was written from an alternate reality.

The GOP establishment argued in its famous “postmortem” that Republicans could never win enough Hispanics to triumph nationally unless they moderated on immigration, while Tea Party stalwarts and crypto-WNs claimed Latinos would never be conservative, and would just flood the country like Orcs voting for more handouts at the expense of the beleaguered white middle class, who wouldn’t have the numbers to electorally defend themselves. 10 years later it seems all of these factions were comically wrong in their predictions.

No they weren't. Biden won the Hispanic vote by 20+ points as did Clinton.

He's being really smug about this even though he was factually wrong and anyone can easily check it in seconds.

Biden and Obama did well with Hispanics but Bush did pretty good too, particularly in 2004 (44%). The Romney GOP postmortem assumed that this was because Bush signaled openness to immigration reform in his second term, but I think that was ill-founded.

I'm not knowledgeable enough about Bush to say, but since every republican since has lost Hispanics by an even bigger margin then it at least hasn't been disproven that moving left on immigration would help Republicans. The way to do that would be to have another Republican candidate to the right of Bush who does even better. I think you're right that it wouldn't help much but that's conjecture.

If the absolute best case, once in a generation achievement for republicans is to lose Hispanics by 12 points (Bush), and the normal outcome is to lose them by 20+ points then it seems like the "Tea Party stalwarts and crypto WNs" were proven right that demographics doom republicans to be a permanent minority party.

Not necessarily. The Bannon plan only called for Republicans to win 40% of Hispanics. In time limited assimilation converts some Hispanics to the ‘white’ category, so as long as the GOP wins increasing voteshare among whites demographics isn’t necessarily guaranteed to go against them.

Why would there be assimilation into whiteness when all the incentives are for them to continue to claim distinctive minority status?

And in an era when even whites are desperately fleeing whiteness on every official form, hence the "native American" population exploding.

And Trump is ahead on Hispanics right now. Pledge to make immigration easier and he'd be even more ahead than he currently is.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Given that most Hispanic voters are from places like Mexico and Puerto Rico, and the new migrants are from places like Ecuador and El Salvador, there isn't good evidence that they particularly want those people coming in. Intra-Hispanic racism is very strong, likely stronger than anti-Irish/Italian sentiment ever was in America. It is a big mistake to imagine that non-whites abide by anything similar to the thought processes that govern whites, particularly urban liberal whites who dominate the discourse.

Hispanic vote is rapidly trending GOP and Biden won it by far smaller margin than pantsuit

if born in Britain, France or Spain etc., will not see themselves as nonwhite, because their societies lack the concept of whiteness as an identity.

Press (X) to doubt. They would see themselves as non-white in exactly the same way as if they were born anywhere else that has the internet and english is commonly spoken. Further they will be reminded at every step by their peers, teachers and general adults how much MENA, person of color or BAME, BIPOC or whatever else fancy term for non-white they are.

It depends on the person and the context. As with sexuality, where bisexuality or queereness is a political label more often than not, in an European context calling yourself black or "native" is completely dependent on your political ideology.

it’s the obvious fact that black people have much more dominant genes than everyone else

Yeah, this is obvious BS. There are lots and lots of traits which are dominant and more present in whites compared to Africans, e.g. the gene for Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency (this is what causes favism in such people who consume fava beans) which is more prevalent in Africans is recessive X-linked.

obviously traits that are more physically apparent are more salient to social stigma of interracial marriage

this is a weird gotcha that utterly misses the point

I agree. In Kenya, half-white people are seen as ‘Mzungu’ - white - by natives. Meghan Markle and Barack Obama would be ‘white’, albeit of African descent. Half black kids in Britain have a separate racial category (mixed race), they’re seen neither as white nor black (which is why people were confused when Markle was considered black by the American press). The reason why the author thinks that African genes are ‘dominant’ is that when, say, your white friend (or indeed just another white person in your community) has a half-black kid, the aspects of their appearance that look different from you stand out much more. That’s the same reason a Kenyan would consider, say, Hakeem Jefferies to be white.

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