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magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
4m ago
I think I'd count Sanford, Ferrier, Routh, and Monper as left-wing assassination plots on Trump. I wouldn't count Allen (apparently just nuts, claimed to have also sent ricin to Elizabeth II), Crooks (ideology unclear), Casap (neo-Nazi attempting to start a race war), or the various Iranian government operatives - indeed, I'd count Casap, though not any of the others, as right-wing.
Technically, Ferrier's assassination attempt wasn't violent (she mailed him ricin), and technically Routh and Monper didn't get around to taking actual violent actions. Sanford absolutely counts, though, and if you count all attempted murders as "violent" (as many statistics do) then Ferrier/Routh would as well (Monper didn't get around to anything I'd label an "attempt", because he was dumb enough to post on social media that he was going to commit a mass shooting).
Corvos
10m ago
In all seriousness, can you genuinely not tell whose great-grandfather was an aristocrat and whose was a subsistence farmer? Or is it just no longer relevant / not considered polite to notice?
JiveTurkey
11m ago
I don't know where you live, but if you can get it, jjampong! It's a spicy Korean seafood noodle soup.
You really can't wrong with any spicy Chinese or Korean soup.
Yes, exactly. I expect the ghoulishness from the proper Marxists, but seeing the exact same bullshit from "respectable" center lefts that we saw during BLM, covid, and Gaza is mind-ruining. Seeing Wikipedia, Snopes, the LA Times, all jumping through the same hoops as before as if nothing has changed, it's genuinely impossible to comprehend. I saw an NBC article talking about the response to his murder, but right in the subheader, they threw in that he was known for saying extreme things online, justifying it right there with something that isn't even true. This is just who they are. There is no crime that could be committed by their side that will make them set aside the bullshit. They are now the bullshit. They can never not be the bullshit.
orthoxerox
If you can read this, you're using a custom theme
59m ago
Definitely not upper, as I have to work for a living (there are no additional cultural requirements in Russia, as we have spent 70 years as the USSR).
Not working class, either, as I have a CNR job.
Lower upper middle, I guess? There are always UMC people richer than me (business owners, senior managers, corrupt public officials), that can buy a house with cash, but I can buy a new car with cash.
orthoxerox
If you can read this, you're using a custom theme
1hr ago
Don't worry, everything is made up and the points don't matter.
LacklustreFriend
37 Pieces of Flair Minimum
1hr ago
How many "left-wing violence incidents" go unprosecuted or otherwise unrecorded and therefore never end up in any dataset. Quite a lot I'd wager.
The problem with trying to take this "scientific", "quantifiable" approach to measuring and comparing left-wing and right-wing violence is that the right believe that institutions at virtually every level are structure in favour of the left and against the right. At every step right-wing violence is further monitored, scruntised, highlighted, pathologised etc etc while the inverse is true for the left. There is no clean, unbiased dataset. Your own scrubbing of the dataset only proves the bias exists, not that you've managed to produce a useful or accurate dataset after cleaning out all the garbage.
People need to understand that the institutions making these claims have lost all credibility and authority with the right, and that appeals to them are meaningless.
This is in addition to basic issues like trying to quantify "level of violence" by counting the mere number of incidents, when it's really a qualitative phenomenon (do 3 mild cases outweight 1 major one?), and in isolation a narrow definition of violence incidences would exclude other forms of political repression or harm.
TowardsPanna
1hr ago
Alright. :)
When you use your Chemex, do you take the filter out when disposing of the soak/pre-heat water? Or just pour the water out through the filter?
jkf
2hr ago
These numbers seem a little low -- are recent-ish events included? I mean, if there are only twelve left-wing incidents I'm gonna guess that the two most recent attempts to assassinate a presidential candidate aren't in there? As I recall there were some other less credible but not insignificant attempts against Trump during his first term as well -- depending on your criteria I think you could get to half a dozen incidents of attempted violence against Trump alone!
cae_jones
2hr ago
I think part of this ties into the contagiousness of mental pathologies. Scott discusses how in countries that have never heard of depression, nobody has depression. Before Columbine, nobody had ever heard of a school shooting, so nobody did school shootings (and even today, outside America, nobody does them).
I know people have harped on this already, but being that the Westside Elementary Massacre happened in the school district next to mine before Columbine, and family and friends were there at the time, I feel the need to contradict the point. How much people get away with terroristic threats always feels similar to all the people getting away with larceny to me, because immediately after Westside, we got authority figures drilling home that terroristic threats would no longer be tolerated, period.
eee
2hr ago
He gave an interview where he goes over what he was trying to say and you are mostly correct.
sohois
2hr ago
Only read the first volume and then stop. Once it wrings the humour out of the situation, it descends to absolute trash tier
Soteriologian
2hr ago
I do think Kirk coming to him played a big part, yes. I think if the visit hadn’t been scheduled so close, it’s likely the shooter would have not attempted kill anyone.
Why? The simple fact that he could have killed Kirk earlier, but never bothered until he happened to show up nearby.
Why the need to "believe"?
Because I do not exist outside time and space, and need to wait for events to unfold, before I know their shape and sequence. Until then I am stuck believing what they will look like, based on what happened in the past.
Eetan
2hr ago
I believe the incestigations are going to keep turning up evidence that he was a radicalized leftist, and there were no personal motives for his shooting.
Why the need to "believe"?
The shooter is alive and, according to news, cooperating with the investigation. Just have patience, just wait how he explains his deed, how he answers the question "why you did it?"
Ademonera
2hr ago
When will media stop being Trump-brained? There’s going to be a solid 10 years of media tainted by this need to relate everything to the current moment. I’m sure that people in the arts feel they’re speaking their truth to the masses by making overt and illusion-breaking analogies and references to real life, but it’s a turn off for me. I think the public moving more conservative will solve for this since movies and tv shows do have to be sold, after all. But still.
I’m sure there a good lessons to learn from putting Trump-like figures (or your caricature of him) in your media, but I’ll probably get more compelling things out of watching him. We’re gonna have 50 years of people recalling the Trump era and the history of his time. Why be so hasty? Just make the thing without it
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2hr ago
Please don't try to drive off the few counter-contrarians we have left here.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2hr ago
Just spitballing here, but might it be that Kirk was simply a much softer target and more available to the shooter than Fuentes?
Corvos
2hr ago
I see. I don’t have much to say except thank you very much to you and @MadMonzer for your detailed replies. I will go away and think about it some more.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2hr ago
Thus, dystopia.
As a general point: all of this means nothing, if you can't make a prediction. It just shows you feel more comfortable squeezing established facts into your preferred theory, something that is pretty trivial to do, no matter what you believe, for the very reasons you, yourself outline.
And on the specifics:
And of course no mention of the one that’s coded right-wing, If you read this, you’re gay!”, because that one doesn’t fit the narrative
You have backwards. Left wingers are the ones glossing over the bullet that clinches it ("catch that, fascist"), and the "you're gay" one is not even very right-coded. I've seen gay people throw glitter bombs and exclaiming "you're gay now!".
Also the point of my prediction is that upon further investigation we won't need to rely on one-liners scrawled on bullet casings, the wider context will become available.
Soteriologian
3hr ago
Well done! I think your analysis is good—even with team pressure, many still chicken out, so the solo chickening rate is almost certainly higher than that rate.
Skibboleth
It's never 4D Chess
3hr ago
Jan 6 will continue to be a major point of contention not for the level of violence in itself, but what that violence (along with other aspects) represents: an attempt forcibly subvert election outcomes. This is sui generis in the history of American political violence.
That seems pretty distant for saying they should be beaten up for the positions they hold.
Firstly, physically manhandling someone against their will is assault. But, to rewind, the reason he is 'clarifying' is that he previously said this:
"I encourage people who get stuck behind the pro-Hamas mobs blocking traffic: take matters into your own hands to get them out of the way. It's time to put an end to this nonsense."
If you consistently characterize peaceful protestors as criminals, suggest the police should be deployed against them, suggest people should take matters into their own hands, etc... then I'm not inclined to be charitable to coy walkbacks.
Do you have examples of prominent right-wingers doing either of this (for cases of unambiguous police brutality)?
Off the top of my head: Charlie Kirk and Donald Trump Jr. both openly mocked the Pelosi attack. Mike Lee mocked the murder Melissa Hortman and suggested the far-left was to blame. I don't know what 'unambiguous' police brutality means, given how lenient the US is to police violence, efforts of state governments to curtail protest rights, and the tendency of right-wingers to equate any form of protest stronger than standing quietly for an hour or two with rioting, but one of the more notorious incidents to come out of the summer 2020 protests was the dispersal of protests in Lafayette Square in DC at the direction of Donald Trump and with the approval of prominent Republicans. We have Ben Shapiro has advocated that Derek Chauvin be pardoned, as another, later example.
On a policy level, you have things like the Trump administration pulling back on civil rights investigations related to police brutality and refusing to enforce oversight, which I would argue constitutes tacit approval for police brutality (as long as the victims are not the wrong sort of people).
For more grass roots expression, I guess you're just going to have to take my word for it that a lot of conservative voters subscribe to the Tango & Cash theory of criminal justice (and can get pretty damn racist about it to boot). Or not.
Alternatively, if you'll forgive the shitty image macro, I think this succinctly captures why left-wingers are unimpressed by right-wing scolding.
(90% of what I know about it I pick up from this website).
No offense, but the TheMotte is literally a forum for right-wing culture warriors and a handful of contrarian gadflies who like arguing with them. Even for the people who aren't far right, they're almost always people with progressive-critical views. It is in no way representative of American political culture, or even of normie conservative American political culture. It gives you a very one-sided view of the state of affairs, e.g. persistently highlighting RW grievances with academia while ignoring or downplaying influential right-wing media figures and general bad behavior. (If one were to base their impression of US politics purely on Motteposting, one might conclude that the right has virtually no media presence, rather than the reality that there's a massive right-wing media ecosystem).
Soteriologian
3hr ago
Obviously the way to know is to look at the unfiltered post set.
For example, you have people in this very thread contending “oh, the markings on these bullets prove he’s a leftist! obviously they’re not meaningless game references like the markings on these other bullets.” And of course no mention of the one that’s coded right-wing, “If you read this, you’re gay!”, because that one doesn’t fit the narrative.
Look, I’m sorry, I don’t enjoy this discussion with you. I do not find it meaningful, so for the last time, thank you, and good night.
Richard Paul Pavlick was prepared to take out JFK in 1960, by loading his car with dynamite and ramming it into Kennedy's. He backed out after seeing Kennedy with his wife and children.
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