domain:putanumonit.com
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
13m ago
All to say, as a liberal I view all illiberalism as evil. And this view is to some degree a matter of faith.
Don't worry about definitions then, I think this answers my questiona better than any encyclopedia could.
I think each paragraph you wrote here could spark a fascinating conversation all of it's own, but I'll try to stick to the subject that started ours. If we change the scenario somewhat, to be about your fargroup, rather than your outgroup, would it change any of your calculus.
For example if a mostly secular Arab moves into a western Christian town, is met with rejection and bigotry, runs into a Wahhabi mosque that welcomes him with open arms as a brother, would you not say the westerners share some blame for his radicalization, even when the final decision is on him?
Jiro
19m ago
Sure so why that particular verse in that particular version of that particular song?
Because a zillion people used a zillion verses from a zillion songs, and that particular one was somewhere in there, and someone found it. Do you think that was the only song anyone ever sang?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
23m ago
You've been catching a lot of flak over this, and I am already tired of the "Nazi!" topic, and besides there's probably a lesson to be learned from history about spotting extremism early and preventing it from turning moderate societies into failed states...
...but given the last decades, I really don't care anymore. Bring on the nazis. I'd rather have literal Hitler spread his brain-rot than give the left another day to spread theirs. Thank you but it's been quite enough. My patience ran out with some finality at some point in 2021. If we can't have nice things, then I'll be living on spite.
Jiro
23m ago
You know I don't think people are being fair to you.
He posted a long rant which left out the fact that one of his "Nazis" is a pro-Palestinian Muslim. People are being plenty fair to him.
orthoxerox
If you can read this, you're using a custom theme
24m ago
Vidya thread.
I finally finished Clair Obscur this week. Well, I didn't beat every optional boss, but I'm too old for this shit. I must say, my earlier criticism about the game's incongruent mood has been invalidated when the game provided an in-universe explanation for it.
Now I'm looking for another game to use my shiny new GPU with. Something I can beat before EU5 comes out in November. Any recommendations?
Jiro
28m ago
why do the Nazis seem to feel so comfortable in modern conservativism?
Not only is this begging the question, your whole post is a Gish gallop. There have already been plenty of posts pointing out that the Young Republicans chat is not pro-Nazi. Someone already has pointed out that Myron Gaines is a pro-Palestinian Muslim--yeah, he doesn't like Jews, big surprise. Maybe he even identifies with Nazis. That reflects on the Democrats, who support the Palestinians and who Muslims are allied with, not on "conservatism". And the swastika flag, being nonobvious, was probably planted there to discredit Taylor. You clearly have not bothered checking any of your items for accuracy before posting them.
If you have a list of 20 reasons why creationism is true and the first item is about how the sun couldn't be millions of years old (written before nuclear fusion was discovered) it's not worth looking at the rest of the list.
RenOS
something is wrong
33m ago
Sorry for the late reply. I understand where you're coming from, but I find your perspective a bit one-sided. On many of these, the DS devs (and many players) simply have a different view, and they would be less happy with the game you would design. Which is fine - imo games, like most art, should be designed first and foremost to your own vision, with as little accommodation to others as possible. But it wouldn't be, strictly speaking, an improvement.
Take Bloodboil Aromatic: it's extremely expensive to make (requiring an Arteria leaf), meaning you can only use it sparingly. Yet it increases your damage taken by 25%! As a casual player, by far your number one concern is bosses killing you before you have a chance to heal, which this item (and many others, e.g., Fire Scorpion Charm) exacerbates. So what exactly is the point of this item? "Well, if you're good enough to not need it, it makes the game a lot easier!" Yay?
"Increase damage inflicted at the cost of increased damage taken" is a common design choice in DS games. As you say, these actually mostly make the game harder, but they allow you to do content faster if you're good enough. It's intended as a reward for skill, as I see it.
Similarly, the Great Rune system is only useful if you're good at the game and don't need it anyway. I'd just remove rune arcs entirely: once you have a great rune, you can just set it and it's active.
DS already has pretty minor penalties for dying unless you're really careless. Again, rune arcs are a reward for skill.
Even potions (ahem, Flask of Crimson Tears) run afoul of this. Good players don't need these at all: just don't get hit, yo. But for bad players, attempting to use a potion often causes you to get hit, as the animation is painfully long and many bosses are coded to input read it. Again, this could be trivially redesigned in a way that's better for everyone: make potions fast or even instant, and increase boss HP to compensate. For casuals, potions would actually feel useful; for better players who weren't using potions anyway, the game gets harder.
That would be pointless, you might as well just increase player health if the potion is instant anyway. And since increasing boss hp is one of the most awful ways of increasing difficulty, the logical next step is to remove that extra player HP AND the extra boss hp to make the game more fun again.
Also, potion usage is a skill test, yes, but a fairly minor one. Generally speaking once you've passed beginner level in skill, potions are imo fairly satisfying: You get hit often enough to need them, you are good enough at timing to usually be capable of using them, but it's always risky enough to keep you on edge, and it's definitely better not getting hit in the first place. It incentives you to git (even more) gud. At the highest skill lvl, you'd just convert all flasks to mana, which can be viewed as another reward for the skill of not being hit.
Overall, imo you need everything in a good game: Some items/mechanics directly help bad players. Some are low lvl or medium lvl skill test, encouraging you to get better, but once you can reliably pass that threshold, they help you clear higher-lvl challenges. Some are just pure rewards for good play and outright require high-lvl skill to use, but allow feats not otherwise possible. Some are memes that actively gimp you, so that simply using them serves as a way of showing off your skill.
In general, I also like the DS aesthetic choice of being able to simply take a short look at another player, and I can usually tell quite reliably whether they're a complete noob, a loser, a tryhard, a "simple" good player, or a total monstrosity.
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
33m ago
ActuallyATleilaxuGhola
Axolotl Tank Class of '24
36m ago
I'm aware of the Quran passages, but I thought that Judaism mostly cozied up to Islam throughout middle ages and early modern ages, and that Jews were willingly employed by Muslims as spies and 5th columnists against Christian kingdoms. AFAIK the current Jewish-Muslim feud did start with the Zionist settlement of the Levant.
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
36m ago
"Bourgeois" was probably the wrong term, I should have said something like "normie right" - I intended to contrast with a group that would include Moldbug fans, frog posters, antisemites who hate Jews for their treatment of Euro gentiles rather than for their treatment of Muslims, Great Replacement theorists and the "dark enlightenment". This includes a lot of people you would consider "Blue Tribe Right".
ActuallyATleilaxuGhola
Axolotl Tank Class of '24
40m ago
My impression is that this was actually true for an earlier period of American history, though. American media from the last 70 years is rife with caricatures of scared mean old men or stupid meathead bullies calling anything perceived as effete or unusual "Communist" or "pinko." My right-wing extended family uses "What? What are you, some kind of Communist?" in response to the same as an ironic self-deprecating joke. And so if you call someone a "Communist" in 2025, all but the most brainrotted boomercons will just laugh at you.
ActuallyATleilaxuGhola
Axolotl Tank Class of '24
51m ago
Are Hakan and Drukpa the same guy? I had heard that Hakan had a new account, but I had not linked the two as the tones are quiet different even if the subject matter is the same.
ActuallyATleilaxuGhola
Axolotl Tank Class of '24
54m ago
I remember being there in 2007 or so, forming swastikas in Club Penguin with the other anons.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
56m ago
Oh! That's a good one. I'll check for that; I can absolutely imagine it being the case. Thanks.
ActuallyATleilaxuGhola
Axolotl Tank Class of '24
58m ago
What's interesting is that the one thing both the Nazi denouncers (Hanania/Lynch/etc) and Nazi defenders (Myron/Torba/etc) here both seem to agree on, is that this is common among the young right.
As Ross Douthat(?) said 10 years ago, "if you don't like the Christian right, you're really not going to like the post-Christian right." Whoops!
We've seen this with Kanye and his descent into Nazism
anon, pls
So with all this recent controversy, how big of a Nazi problem is actually festering, and why do the Nazis seem to feel so comfortable in modern conservativism?
Nazis aren't real in 2025. You need to more precisely define what you mean. A guy waving a Soviet flag in 2025 isn't a Bolshevik, he's a progressive.
Will this growing trend of Nazi radicalism destroy the Republicans chances among moderates in the future like embracing left wing radicalism hurt Biden?
What is "Nazi radicalism" in the 2025 American context? In any case, no, I think normies are experiencing a hangover from woke and are desensitized to this pearl-clutching nonsense.
And how do the non Nazi conservatives and moderates balance fighting off Nazi accusations from the left also working to stem this apparant rise of unashamed nazism and Holocaust denialism?
All the defections have already happened. Nobody on the right cares about "fighting off Nazi accusations from the left." Why should we fight any accusation from the left? Why not just lean into it while mocking the left and winking to the audience? That seems to be working.
I think your perspective on TheMotte could actually be extremely valuable, if only you would directly state your opinions and drop all of the accusations and attempts at reader manipulation. You've already been called out on the "have you stopped beating your wife?" style questions, so why not try to write another post about these events seeking to understand people who might have had a different reaction from yours?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
1hr ago
There are no stable illiberal democracies.
There are no stable societies. People change, cultures change, and whatever laws and customs suited them at one point will no longer do it at another. Any system can be gamed, any ruleset subverted, any institution compromised, any social consensus undermined. Anything can be corrupted, exploited, turned against its purpose, cannibalized for someone's benefit at someone else's expense. Any form of political organization that is worth abusing will be abused, and that is all of them.
All liberal societies converge into atomized free-for-alls, and/or they collapse or become dictatorships after all. Nothing lasts forever, and liberal democracies haven't even been around for that long. So far it seems they're pretty great at creating prosperity - but that also makes them extremely attractive to subvert and exploit. And malicious actors are getting better and better and doing that, far faster than benevolent social engineers can patch up the social-cohesion-leaks, procedural deadlocks, cultural backdoors and other assorted failure modes.
Corvos
1hr ago
Oh, I forgot, but I had this same problem one time because my mountainous terrain was being automatically turned into a simple convex. So huge amounts of apparently empty space were part of the collision object.
Corvos
1hr ago
You could turn off collision shapes and attach your own as some kind of custom attribute maybe.
Bartender_Venator
1hr ago
If Hlynka was here to see you call him "bourgeois right" I think he'd get himself banned again. Hlynka was an actual Red Triber and as far as I can tell he saw HBD as Blue Tribe Right egghead nonsense.
RenOS
something is wrong
1hr ago
Based on reviews I've seen Good Fortune is also very tired anti-capitalist drivel, and I'd wager the kind of person still going to movies is not exactly receptive to that. But simultaneously that is a tried & trusted approach to rehabilitation in leftist circles, so even a bomb might still be worth it for him.
cae_jones
1hr ago
I had this problem in a small custom engine that I threw together for my own amusement. I showed it to Claude, and it made a bunch of rewrites that fixed the problem.
Since that can't be applied to Unreal, I'm not really sure how else to deal. I'd probably try to write something to identify when the problem happens and counteract it, but in my example that just made it worse.
ccc
1hr ago
I view one losing faith in liberalism much like a good Christian views a fellow believer losing faith in God: understandable, yet nonetheless misguided.
The siren song of authoritarianism is strong, and it is foolish to listen to the devil's lies. But even still, many of us are fools. So it goes. How well they can be redeemed depends on how much they let those lies corrupt their soul. So there is in a sense both nothing and everything bad about believing anything at all. Our free will both condemns us to sin and allows us to forgive.
All to say, as a liberal I view all illiberalism as evil. And this view is to some degree a matter of faith. I could try writing words to rationalize it, but you would almost certainly be better off reading Mill or Scott or some other better writer. Ditto your request for definitions: I will defer to Wikipedia if you still want those. My apologies.
At best I can offer https://youtube.com/watch?v=xGeOEr6yFL4?si=klFr_r8Y2oPSaaju
The sin of dictatorship is that the people can push off failures of government to one man.
All illiberal societies converge into dictatorships, and/or they collapse or liberalize. There are no stable illiberal democracies.
I would rather die as Socrates did, a free man condemned by his own foolish people, than to prosper like a child under the rule of a benevolent King.
(Now, a God King is another thing entirely, but I am unfortunately an atheist.)
For the subject at hand, the people in this story are likely redeemable given proper guidance, and many are just victims of context collapse. Young men making crass jokes amongst themselves is normal behavior and nothing new.
clo
1hr ago
Against my better judgement, I'm going to go "yes, and?", given that even downthread there is another top level post about ACT trying to separate Fascism the ideology from Fascism the viable target.
I could argue the semantics of "Nazi" but given that the term has almost entirely lost relevance in the modern day and is equivalent to "people on a political side I don't like" as pointed out by others in this thread, let's take the bog standard meat and potatoes definition: members of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei who held political dominance and control in Germany and whose expansionist policies, among other things, led to the outbreak of the European chunk of World War 2.
Is your position that the "Nazi Problem" is still a problem? If so, then what do you recommend happen? More funding for Nazi-hunting activities and groups in the era of global information flow? I hear a lot of them might still be hidden in South America, you might find some teeth there. Is it your position that members of the NSDAP feel comfortable in modern conservatism? Well, I'm not sure about how comfortable they would be given their advanced age. Is it your position that Nazis are in control of the highest levels of American border control, in a country that - while responsible for the most advanced Nazi science of its era - actively fought the Nazis during World War 2?
You talking about the "Nazi problem", to me, kind of sounds like some crazy wonk talking about the "Hun problem" in Eastern Asian politics. Maybe try the "Han problem".
Okay, fine. Let's take your argument at face value; let's say the NSDAP has survived to this day, and has crossed continents, regions, and time to fester within the American Republican party. So what's your goal then? If the goal is the same as it was in World War 2, and you believe Nazis are hiding in one of the two political parties America has, what would you do about it? Talk about it on some internet forum full of wordcels? Or would you pick up a helmet and gun? After all, the only good fascist is a dead fascist, and you have no shortage of targets given the wide definition of "Nazi" used today. You don't even have to escalate to gunfire, if "bash the fash" is considered acceptable political discourse these days.
"Will this growing trend of Nazi radicalism destroy the Republicans chances among moderates in the future" is a moronic question. After all, they're Nazis. America went to war against Nazis. Then why are you even talking about "moderates" like you care about the optics of Nazis?
Maybe it would be worth studying about how the NSDAP gained power in the first place, and the political, economic, and social conditions in the streets of Germany that allowed them to seize power?
Agree with much of what you say, but strongly disagree with this. Great Runes are my reward for killing an actual demigod, master of their domain, and stealing a chunk of the fundamental force powering the universe from their corpse. And then finding their rune tower and beating whatever bullshit is guarding it. The whole plot was about how Queen Marika's death sparked a power struggle trying to grab hold of these things! They should be an actual serious meaningful upgrade to reflect my ascension to demigodhood or super-super-demigodhood, and at least one should be permanently active.
Elden Rings isn't Dark Souls, it's epic fantasy. You are on a journey to become God-King and your acquisition of power should reflect that IMO.
That said, Elden Ring is very inconsistent with power levels. I remember beating the really hard boss who owns the second half of thesecret Haligtree medallion to open the secret path to the Haligtree and being really surprised when one of the first mobs you meet is a zombielike aristocrat trudging through the snow who dies in two hits. Like, you can barely stand, how did you get here? Did I spend ages finding the key to the front door, a quest which got an entire village and several named NPCs killed, only to find that everyone else was happily getting in and out through the back door? I suppose he could be left over from before the path closed, but then why isn't he in the Haligtree brace toasting crumpets over the fire?
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