site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   36262 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 24, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

20
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Paul Pelosi, husband of U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D), was assaulted in their San Francisco home by a hammer-wielding man early on Friday.

CNN, citing a source, reported that the assailant shouted "Where is Nancy?" before the attack and told police he was "waiting for Nancy" when they arrived at the scene.

I'm reminded of the Congressional baseball shooting in 2017, where six people were shot, including U.S. House Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R).

I don't have anything intelligent to add. Just curious on your thoughts, if any.

The suspect is a green party voter and nudist activist, I don't think he fits easily into national party boxes.

The suspect is a green party voter and nudist activist, I don't think he fits easily into national party boxes.

Predictably Twitter is all in on labeling this as fascist right wing terrorism.

Well, as the Reuters article says:

In recent posts on several websites, an internet user named "daviddepape" expressed support for former President Donald Trump and embraced the cult-like conspiracy theory QAnon. The posts include references to "satanic paedophilia," anti-Semitic tropes and criticism of women, transgender people and censorship by tech companies.

Older messages promote quartz crystals and hemp bracelets. Reuters could not confirm that the posts were created by the man arrested on Friday.

The San Francisco Chronicle posted a photo of a man the newspaper identified as Depape dancing at the 2013 wedding of two nudist activists in San Francisco, though he was fully clothed. Depape, then a hemp jewelry maker who lived with the couple in a crowded home in Berkeley, was the best man at the wedding, the newspaper reported.

Unless this is a case of mistaken identity, it would be the Trump support, QAnon etc. that would be the reason for the label "far-right terrorism".

Really, do you think that it's impossible that this guy would go from being a Green Party voter to QAnon conspiracy theorism? I consider it very plausible, as such movement has been seen otherwise in similar circles during the Trump/Covid years.

One thing I've noted - generally, not just related to this case, and of course reporting might still change, as it is often wont to do - is that there are many right-wingers who are perfectly able to understand that left-wingers may often turn rightwards, even abruptly so, who find such developments and see-the-light movements expected, who have even done it themselves... but, if such a person happens to do something crazy, will immediately start going "Oh, see these old Facebook posts from years ago, look at his hippie hobbies, look at what a weirdo he is... clear case of left-wing terrorism, once again the media is blaming the right for no reason at all" and so on.

Really, do you think that it's impossible that this guy would go from being a Green Party voter to QAnon conspiracy theorism?

It makes him a very non-central example when used for attacks on the right in general, as the media uses him.

Non-central to what? Right-wingers in general?

Are they just supposed to not mention his recently expressed political views in connection to an attack on a politician?

Did they manage to just not mention who he voted for?

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats