site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   35056 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 28, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

16
Top Bottom New Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Blended salads will go mainstream by 2050--that is, people will blend up what is very obviously originally a salad based on the ingredients (and so different from today's veggie smoothies) and drink it for efficiency's sake.

I doubt this because people don't actually like the ingredients. They like ranch or whatever other gross and caloric dressing they put on, and they don't want to actually know how many calories of it they are consuming, because it will obviously be so much that their salad is about as healthy as fried chicken in ketchup sauce.

People should probably just be like me and admit vegetables are gross, and force yourself to eat a bowl of kale or romaine before the meal starts in a quick, but unsatisfying fury.

For years now, I've eaten my veggies by ditching side salads and just replacing my secod meal with a bowl of self-made salad consisting napa cabbage (much better for salads than lettuce), tomato, cucumber, carrots, red onion or yellow pepper, a squirt of light dressing and a protein source (usually tuna, salmon, chicken or pork). It goes down very well.

  1. Salads done well are delicious, 2) calories are not a great indicator of what’s healthy vs what isn’t

Are carrots all that healthy? If so not a bad option, but much slower I'd think because of all that chewing (which might be part of the satisfaction to you, in which case think of mixing in celery).

Eating a health mix of vegetables would be better, but eating raw carrots is at least much better than drinking OJ.

Calories in salad dressings mostly come from fat, and fat is typically more filling than carbs. Of course the war on fat has eliminated it from many products, replacing it with carbs that leave you craving more.

Vegetables coated or cooked in fat are delicious.

You can drown your salad in dressing, and you're still adding fewer calories than a single twinkie. 4 twinkies have as many calories as a steak. The steak will leave me feeling fuller, as will the salad.

People should probably just be like me and admit vegetables are gross, and force yourself to eat a bowl of kale or romaine before the meal starts in a quick, but unsatisfying fury.

Or they could find vegetables they like. If you think all vegetables are gross, you are either a picky eater or ten.

I hated vegetables as a child, like most kids. When I started eating them again as an adult, I learned that brussel sprouts (!!) properly sauteed, are actually delicious, fresh green beans can be good, and raw spinach is superior to lettuce for just about any purpose.

(Cooked spinach, however, is still disgusting.)

I can't handle Brussels sprouts, not because of the flavor, but because they smell like death. Had a roommate who would cook them all the time and it would stink up the whole house.

If you think all vegetables are gross, you are either a picky eater or ten.

Or I just know that they are worse and ruin the meal. Just like a mixed drink is inferior to just drinking the cheap vodka and then enjoying your soda. There is no single malt vegetable that I've found. Better to just chug a handful of spinach and then get on with the good part of the meal.

When I started eating them again as an adult, I learned that brussel sprouts (!!) properly sauteed, are actually delicious

Oft alleged to me. This comes in two forms in my experience: Tastes like bacon, because its actually like 30% bacon, or bad.

No reason for me to deal with these illusions. I just eat raw spinach or kale, in 25 seconds, and move on with life.

Dude. Bake or roast some cruciferous veggies with some root vegetables. Add some salt and butter. It’s divine.

False. It is mediocre at best. Easily outdone by any non-green thing. Adding butter is defeating the purpose of consuming calorie free fiber. Why not just eat mac and cheese if you are doing that?

I don’t eat veggies so that they’ll be calorie free, I eat them for fun and profit (nutrients + fiber).

I’ll give you a secret. Mac and cheese is better if you add chicken and broccoli to it.

But it’s clear I will never convert you to my culinary religion, I’ll go evangelize elsewhere :(

I really like asparagus and Brussel sprouts baked on a sheet with butter. Tastes great. Also plenty of fiber, etc. I'll keep eating it. Perhaps with some mac n cheese.

I learned that brussel sprouts (!!) properly sauteed, are actually delicious

Brussel sprouts of the past are different than the Brussel sprouts we eat now:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/10/30/773457637/from-culinary-dud-to-stud-how-dutch-plant-breeders-built-our-brussels-sprouts-bo

force yourself to eat a bowl of kale or romaine before the meal starts in a quick, but unsatisfying fury.

You can just not eat the vegetables, you know.

And do what with the daggers coming out of my wife's stare? Also, calorie-free fiber has benefits.

The taste of vegetables depends very much on how fresh they are. Carrots eaten right after being pulled out of the ground taste very good, while old carrots taste horrible.

Old tomatoes are gross, but fresh tomatoes are good, and tomatoes eaten right off the plant taste like a completely different vegetable.

Carrots eaten right after being pulled out of the ground taste very good

They feel gritty and taste like dirt to me

You are supposed to wash the clay off first 😁

True, but they all taste worse than steak, cheese, and chicken. So whatever it is it is just a roadblock to the good portion of the meal.

Indeed tomatoes taste so different they become a fruit ;)

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats