The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:
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Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.
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Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.
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Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).
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Late last year I posted a comment here asking how I could convince my girlfriend to start eating more. Now, I'm posting an update.
Frankly I was annoyed by some of the replies to my previous post that said I should "enjoy my slim girlfriend", or that implied that I was making more of a problem out of it than it actually was. She actually lost more weight and now weighs 98 lbs. It took several months of patient intervention for me to convince her that yes, I do actually want her to gain weight, and yes, I absolutely would still think she was pretty if she weighed 120 lbs. Recently she finally caved and went to her doctor for a formal medical opinion, and he backed me up on this by telling her that she was at risk of osteoporosis and anemia if she didn't change her diet and gain weight. My cause has also seen some support from her older sister, a very intelligent woman whom she trusts a lot, telling her that she needs to start eating more red meat. So in theory, at least, I've been able to convince her that her ordinary diet and habits aren't healthy or sustainable.
The problem, at least as I see it, is that even with this realization it's been hard for her to break her habits. We go out to brunch and she still eats her little vegan salads. I tell her she should add some chicken or other protein to the salads and she declines. She still consults the app on her phone that counts all her calories for the day. It's hard for me to figure out what the line is between pushing her to be healthier for her own sake, and being outright controlling over her lifestyle. Do I just put my foot down and confront her, pushing her to be serious about her health?
Maybe a bit "deceptive" but, Do you cook at home? It's quite easy to sneak in calories by using extra fat. And you will have to just a little bit more, it won't be noticeable. You can sneak in half a stick of butter into a pasta sauce without it being "greasy" if you do it right.
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Speaking as a man who was once described as "manorexic", who genuinely believed I was a fat blob when in reality I was just a regular guy with some muscles, I'm not entirely sure how you deal with this specific case, but I certainly have experience dealing with and eventually overcoming comparable issues so maybe you'll be able to extract some value from that.
I will say, a previous comment seems to have hit a number of salient points, that this occured at a point in my life when I felt I had very little control and that the extremes I went to in pursuing my fitness and diet goals were an attempt to regain control over some aspect of my life. It later turned out I was trying to ignore/brute force a whole bunch of issues and that this really wasn't sustainable long term. As soon as I was removed from the stressors and able to accept the issues I was facing, I was actually recalibrate mentally, that burning need to reshape my body evaporated and now I have a much healthier approach to fitness in general.
Another big factor for me was the content I consumed and the websites I frequented online. I spent a lot of time in bodybuilding and weight lifting forums and it definitely distorted my idea of what was normal.
All of that said, I think it would be great if you could get your girlfriend into fitness in general and weightlifting in particular. While it is possible to go too far and harm yourself, it's a hell of a lot harder than it is with simply starving yourself. The thing that will really help to shift that mindset I think will be her watching female fitness influencers and getting her into that whole eco-system, one where women are striving to be more than just skinny, but actually fit and healthy. The company you keep does influence you and your outlook on life and to our monkey brains, influencers and social media types are company. Also it might help to explain that looking attractive is not simply a question of bodyfat percentages, but also what is underneath the fat. The video I linked earlier actually has a decent breakdown of bf% versus muscle mass for men and what that looks like.
Oh and it would probably be a good idea to one day figure out the source of the problem, I'd seriously recommend looking up things like what female autism looks like and just trying to explore things of that nature. It can seem somewhat orthogonal to the problem at hand, but the mind is a funny thing.
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Try getting really good at cooking and the slightest bit hurt whenever you slave away over some delicious medium calorie dish and she only grazes at it?
I'm not being facetious. This is how several cultures handle forcing people to eat more. Shame is a powerful tool, and there are far more effective forms of it than shaming people for their personal failings. Handling cooking for a home grants one a great deal of power over the health of the family, for good or ill.
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Damn, I'm sad to hear this. This is one of those times when I had really hoped that I was wrong about what was going on.
Here's the thing about all of this. You can't really control her behavior, and trying to do so is just going to be crazymaking for the both of you. It's her problem to deal with, and hardcore eating disorders are things that have to be managed, not problems that can be solved. It seems like you're really worried about her (and rightly so!) but the last thing you want to do in this situation is to behave in a pushy, controlling, or confrontational way. The most likely result of that kind of behavior is further withdrawal and further entrenchment of the eating disordered thinking--it just feeds the disease. Instead, I'd encourage you to see yourself as her ally, her first line of love and support, and think about your relationship with her on those same terms, which is to say that the more you can love, accept, and support her as she is, the more she'll be able to positively use her own strength constructively in her own life. You can still express your concerns or worry when she asks for feedback (which I'd recommend that you do as gently as you possibly can!) but otherwise those feelings are yours to deal with as well as you possibly can. You can check out The Secret Language of Eating Disorders by Peggy Claude-Pierre, it offers great insight into the minds of the eating disordered.
I said in my earlier reply that it's a long road, she needs a lot of people in her corner, and she needs to choose to work on this herself, yadda yadda yadda, and I'm afraid all of that is still true. Is that something you can live with? Think about what's best for you in this situation without any regard for whether or not she's going to be able to change her eating habits. Can you still love this girl and be happy even if she's always going to be controlling about her eating and even if she stays underweight? If the answer to those questions is a yes, then I'd encourage you to start with accepting that this is likely to be a chronic issue for the duration of your relationship with her, and I'd also encourage you to seek out and find support for those of us that love our eating disordered partners and spouses. There's bound to be lots of heartache and many bumps in the road, and the better you can do with keeping your own metaphorical oxygen mask secure, the better your relationship with her will fare.
Regardless, I still wish you well!
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Have you seen the SSC post on anorexia?
https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/26/anorexia-and-metabolic-set-point/
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You should get her a gym membership and spike a lot of the food you guys eat with olive oil. These two should help her get a higher appetite and also sneak in extra calories. This is a terrible spot to be in. Being thin is not healthy. Confront her, you are her boyfriend.
The current beauty standard is a historic anomaly that should be discarded. The aspirational body type for a girl today is slowly changing, and it's a good sign. She may need counselling. Props to you for intervening. Put your foot down.
Isn't pro-ana a thing of the 10's or even 00's? There are more overweight and obese girls in the first-world countries than there are dangerously underweight ones. 120 pounds is a perfect weight to be at.
I agree that a gym membership is a good idea. Especially if @CriticalDuty can gawk at the girls there in a way that looks like he's trying to hide it from his GF, but is still obvious to her. Show her what the most attractive body type looks like.
The ideal body has higher than average amounts of proportional muscle mass alongside slightly lower fat percentage. The same levels of fat look markedly different as muscle mass means less adiposity. Greek sculptures were not super lean. Ditto for women, the ones people find hot have higher muscle mass, allowing them to have way better fat distribution.
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Are there any doctors involved here? I mean there are lots of things that could be causing this and not all of them are her trying to stay slim. Maybe she has a form of sensory issue that makes eating unfamiliar food unpleasant. She might have some sort of digestive issues. She might have a blockage somewhere that makes eating a lot of food unpleasant. If there are mental blocks, she needs a professional of some sort so she can sort out her feelings about her weight.
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This could horribly backfire, depending on what's underlying her behavior. I helped someone get over a very serious eating disorder, a very long time ago, and one thing that quickly became clear in that case was that the disorder had developed and been reinforced primarily because it provided a feeling of power and control in a life that had been very heavily controlled by others. Part of the solution was to logically explain just how self-destructive the disorder was, but a bigger part was to improve the level of and awareness of more wholesome ways to assert self-control, and to aid in that self-control in a way that made me seem like an ally rather than just another oppressive external source of control. I fear even the "logically explain" bit might have been counterproductive if I wasn't the sort of nerd who mostly interacts with the sorts of nerds that that kind of thing actually works on.
That all sounds ridiculously vague, partly because I'm trying to be respectful of privacy, but partly because your girlfriend may have a completely different underlying problem, and I don't want to give the impression that I'm recommending a particular fix rather than just a search for a deeper problem.
I also feel like it's cruel but necessary to point out that there may be no fix. A BMI of 16.3-and-decreasing is getting into the range typically associated with anorexia. Anorexia gets called "the most lethal mental disorder" because even when it's professionally diagnosed it's not always professionally remediable. Don't blame yourself if it turns out that you can't figure out a remedy here either. Getting her doctor and sister on the case may have been the best you could do, and encouraging and supporting them may be the best you can do now.
I don't suppose you could elaborate on that? I know someone who I suspect may be in a similar situation, but it's not an eating disorder.
I'd rather not elaborate further somewhere that could be web searched some day; I'll message you privately.
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It may be worth evaluating whether it's a fear thing, a social thing, or a genuine lack of hunger; all are problems, but they'll have different solutions.
You're treating it like it's a social thing (habits, how others see her, so on), so assuming that's the case, I'd caution that it's usually more effective to work within existing habits than around them. Try to negotiate a slightly higher calorie intake, or add a protein requirement (even if vegan proteins), or have one meal once a week away from the cell phone, rather than get rid of the calorie-counter app entirely. Suggest vitamin or macronutrient supplements rather than changing what's on the dining room table. That'll not only avoid problems with being controlling; it should also make it easier to acclimatize toward.
Regardless of approach, be aware that sustained significant increases in calorie intake (or most macronutrients) aren't much easier to actually do than decreases.
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I mean, at the end of the day, she's only your girlfriend and it's none of your business. I can't pretend to know your relationship, but imagine if you will she came to you and started taking a deadly serious and negatively slanted interest in something you did? Pathologized how much you played video games, or arguing with people on the internet, or watched porn? If you don't actually do any of those things, replace it with something you do do.
snigger do do.
I guess my point is, even if you are right, you're still just a boyfriend. Probably the latest of many, others of whom never had a problem with this before. This is more of a fight for her family and doctor to wage.
That said, my wife had some eating disorder adjacent behavior that didn't stop until we decided to have kids. After putting a baby in her 6 years ago they haven't re-emerged even slightly.
Not that I'm suggesting you rush anything.
This is a very pro-anomie sort of take. If my video game playing was eclipsing all my other recreation time, or my porn watching was impacting my sex life, or arguing with people on the internet was filling me with bile, I'd want the people in my life to bring that shit up. It's 2025. 'Just a boyfriend' isn't a thing. The title doesn't mean they're family, but it is definitely not a sign they're not serious and heading in the direction of either a lifelong relationship or proper marriage.
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I find this comment bizarre. They've been going out at least a year, and probably considerably longer considering this was brought up as a concern a year ago. At what point would you suggest that a concern for another person's mental and physical wellbeing becomes one's "business"?
I'd also suggest a girlfriend would not be out of her lane to have concerns about any of the examples you mention (porn, gaming, the insanity of constant online argument). There are of course various ways to bring these things up, some much more strident and ineffective than others.
You are free to have your views of course but I disagree.
7 months ago, but who's counting?
I donno man, everyone is different. Some people have a very "There's no ring on this finger, it's none of your business" attitude, some people have a "My last relationship was 5 years and we've only been together 7 months, who are you to get all up in my business" attitude, some people are moved in and married inside a year, for others a year is still well within scoping this other person out and how long and how serious the relationship is has been more of a slow climb of a smooth gradient than an on/off switch. More over, CriticalDuty might not even be on the same page about the level of concern and commitment (and control) that is appropriate at this point in the relationship.
But like I said, I can't presume to know their relationship, it was just a perspective I hadn't seen yet, so I thought it was worth giving.
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Ask her how she arrived at the calorie goal in the app (on what basis the target was set).
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