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PaperclipPerfector  21hr ago (text post)   822 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for August 10, 2025

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What is the general state of online dating?

Previously, I left that particular cesspit some 10--15 years ago. Back then, I used various text-based dating websites. The dynamics were what I would describe as toxic. The platforms I used had unlimited messaging for paying users. I think the dominant strategy for guys was to message all the women they considered attractive using canned messages optimized through careful A/B testing. This lead to the women's inboxes to be full of messages which resulted in a very low response rate -- which was frustrating because I would typically put my emotional energy reserves of a few days into writing an initial message. (Today, I would experiment with sending a short comment which requires less energy. "nice shoes/helmet/whatever" or something.)

I think that with the advent of LLMs, text-based dating has probably jumped the sharks completely. If a woman gets texted by a guy who refers to her profile text, quotes her favorite authors and is generally very engaging, then 99 out of 100 times it is just some dude using an LLM who has spent five seconds looking at her profile picture before forwarding her account to his chatbot.

(I still think there is a niche for LLM-based dating where users explicitly engage with the site's LLM instead of each other and clarify their preferences through text. "Yes, I told you that I am into guys who read a lot, but the person you suggested to me just is a big nerd, I am not into that." etc. Not sure if it would offer any advantage over the status quo for women, though. Also, there is probably a cousin to Arrow's theorem stating that there is no dating system where participants are incentivised to state their true preferences.)

So how are the swiping apps these days? (Personally I think it would be more sustainable for me emotionally because swiping right is a much smaller investment. Swiping right on 100 women and not getting any matches would not significantly update my world view, while composing longer texts to three women and not getting any replies would be painful.)

Or whatever is the next hot thing in dating?

It's pretty bad. At least in my case it's the combination of relatively few matches (about 1 new match a week), plus the lack of response to relatively thought out initially messages (+sometimes follow-ups). What's worse is one of my roommates has loads of success, but he's pretty scummy when it comes to women on dating apps. Leading 3-4 of them along at once pretending that he's going to commit. It feels really bad: I've decided to delete the apps and have been focusing on running and work while still socializing with friends.

At least in my case it's the combination of relatively few matches (about 1 new match a week), plus the lack of response to relatively thought out initially messages (+sometimes follow-ups). What's worse is one of my roommates has loads of success, but he's pretty scummy when it comes to women on dating apps. Leading 3-4 of them along at once pretending that he's going to commit.

And this is a vicious cycle — getting played leads women to leave, or the stories lead them to never download. I met my girlfriend in college, and she told me she’d be scared to use the apps and she’s glad she met me in person.

Yea dude. I've called this guy out on it multiple times, but he never changes. Starting to come round to the idea that this type of man needs to be castrated (or forcibly married). Women do eventually learn, but for some reason there's always more to take their places.

I feel like as I get older I realize more and more why there’s so much suspicion against men among women. That said, it’s bewildering how… lacking in instinct for manipulation a lot of young women are. Or even basic “don’t do something completely insane” instinct. I went on a date with someone once who told me she’d met a man in a park in the middle of the night. You did what?

I don't really think this is a malady unique to young women, nor do I think the dating market is just all men being degenerates and taking advantage of women all the time either (these stories just tend to get disproportionate amounts of attention, including on this forum among conservatives who are often very in favour of policing male sexual behaviour for the benefit of ostensibly strong and independent women). I've seen people of both sexes put up with shit I really wouldn't have; being down bad is quite the drug.

In fact the studies I have looked at on the topic seem to indicate, if anything, the opposite. Here is one of the early studies which indicate that. "The data suggest that women were less "romantic" than men, more cautious about entering into romantic relationships, more sensitive to the problems of their relationships, more likely to compare their relationships to alternatives, more likely to end a relationship that seemed ill fated, and better able to cope with rejection." It also contains the clinical impressions of a psychologist who counselled young people, noting that "The notion that the young adult male is by definition a heartless sexual predator does not bear examination ... some of the most acute cases of depression I have ever had to deal with occurred in attempting to help young men with their betrayal by a young woman in whom they had invested a great deal and who had, as the relationship developed, exploited them rather ruthlessly".

The skewed perspectives typical among women in the dating market primarily stems from them looking at the attractive lotharios who make them horny, not the experiences of the majority of men out there. In addition, I highly suspect many of these women who get into relationships with players absolutely know what they're in for (women are not that epically stupid and such men barely even attempt to conceal what their intentions are), they just milk the high for all it's worth. Until they realise they will not be the one to tame the rogue, that pigs will fly before that happens, and start regretting their decisions. But just because you didn't like the aftermath doesn't mean all that candy didn't taste fantastic when it was going down.

I've seen people of both sexes put up with shit I really wouldn't have; being down bad is quite the drug.

Unfortunately so are low self-esteem ("this is the best I could ever hope for") and self-harm ("I deserve this abuse"), particularly in people who don't show it publicly.

Being smitten is a hell of a drug.

That said, it’s bewildering how… lacking in instinct for manipulation a lot of young women are.

You could amend that to "women." The amount of 30something married women I've seen fall for very obvious manipulation from a lothario is painful to contemplate.

I’ve just… never encountered this stuff. Maybe it’s just my religious background or my conservative community or maybe it’s happening under my nose and I don’t know it, but “married woman has an affair with a lothario” just… is not something I’ve ever encountered in my circles. Where are you observing this stuff?

Where are you observing this stuff?

I know many lawyers plus many non-lawyers who are adjacent to the legal field.

My experience (of hearing women complain IRL), the emphasis is fearing men will assault them, not lie to or manipulate them.

I once had the misfortune of watching a woman at a bar loudly shitting on male hinge profiles, while surrounded by men who kept trying to engage with her socially. This was in the context of after a 5e RPG night at said bar. One guy asked her if she's ever been on a Hinge date and she said "chuh, no, I don't want to get Assaulted" while not looking at him. Then another of the guys around her mentioned being gay and she suddenly put down her phone and started staring at him lovingly.

Yeah, I don’t doubt that’s a big part of the concern. But also, that’s the sort of thing that some say as an excuse — “chuh, no, I’m just looking for validation and attention online to make me feel good about myself without actually having to be in a position of connection or vulnerability” is not exactly a great thing to say about yourself, even if it’s true. I can certainly understand safety concerns about meeting strange men, but having those concerns while continuing to swipe and even to mock the people who are trying to connect with you is simply vicious, based on bad-faith.

The real truth about dating apps is that they’re good for window shopping — and people who like impulse purchases — and not much good for much else, though people do get lucky in the same way people used to get lucky at a bar or a club. Or I got lucky at the college atheist org meetup. (Yeah, really. The history of my romantic life has some wild twists and turns around my spiritual convictions, and not a one of my girlfriends didn’t have something to do with religion, either positively or negatively.)

But the purpose of the system is what it does, and not only the purpose but actually the intended function of the swipe-based matching apps is to facilitate hookups, not deep connections.

A big part of the problem for a lot of older guys seems to be that women with a realistic sense of romance and a strong drive to find a real partner tend to choose early, and confidently. The rest are waiting for something exciting to happen, or just trying to “enjoy life as it comes” same as young men do.

And putting up with bad behavior in a relationship for absurdly long amounts of time. This same guy has had a "girlfriend" in California for nearly 3 years. Cheats on her constantly. She must know unless she's being extremely willfully blind. He won't officially claim her as his girlfriend unless it's convenient. Yet they still talk on the phone every single day.

"I would rather be a temporary fleshlight for a 9 or 10 than a permanent sex slave and housekeeper for a 5." says one woman, and I can only really fucking hope that this is the opinion of an extreme minority.

I hope I'm right. I'm terrified that I'm wrong.

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