site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   31039 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 16, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Are food allergies another aspect of the culture war? I was reading Reddit and a person was feeding 100 people and someone mentioned to make sure you have all the allergies/food restrictions covered. Being honest I’ve never met anyone with a food restriction I can think of except a lot of brown friends who won’t eat sausage but also have no problem with alcohol.

Ancient religions had a lot of restrictions, now Im borrowing this from elsewhere that the rise of food restrictions is just the same thing as ancients banning certain foods as holy acts. I’ve long argued that the culture wars are less of a culture war and more of a religious war and dietary restrictions are just a modern form of Jews and Muslims banning pork/shellfish etc and Catholics not eating meat on fridays. All religions seem to have focuses on eating and sexual rituals.

I know mental illness has far higher rates amongst lefties. My guess is dietary restrictions and food allergies are much higher in lefties and if your not in that religion it’s something you never think of.

My cousin is definitely deathly allergic to peanuts. Has been since birth, as far as I’m aware. I watched her arms swell up from the residue of boiled peanut juice on a table. You’d better believe she is careful, even neurotic, about food prep. Plenty red tribe, though, as if that matters.

I’ve got a friend whose sister is moderately-functioning autistic. As part of her genetic challenge run she developed some sort of gluten intolerance. While I can’t prove that the specialists weren’t overdiagnosing, I’m not going to be the one to try and convince this girl that the vomiting and hives are all in her head.

We found out that my brother was allergic to cashews when he was about 6. Full on anaphylaxis. He turned out to have a whole spread of tree-nut allergies, most of which he’s since outgrown. But almost watching your son choke to death changes a person, and Mom was quite careful with checking ingredients for the next ten years.

I’d be willing to believe that the marginal food intolerance is psychological or perhaps, in harder times, would have been kept quiet. Extending that claim to say it’s “religion” is...ridiculous.

There are supposedly people out there who get severe symptoms around wifi routers, but only if they know they're there. Don't underestimate the power of the mind.

The local public school's art teacher almost got wifi banned from the school because of that (and her friends did get it banned from local public housing, using their credentials as licensed reiki energy healers). Sanity only barely prevailed, and I heard rumors it was thanks to a "can you feel the wifi right now? Well... It's off" gambit at a staff meeting.

deleted

The guy probably showed up with his reiki energy ‘healer’(who claimed to have a license) and the manager then claimed to ban Wi-Fi while in reality affecting nothing, because it’s easier to pretend to comply than to argue.

C'mon, who hasn't done a little Chicago sunroof? And anyway how was he supposed to know the kids were in the car?

I actually don't think most of it is psychological, although it may have a vaguely related, CW cause. Autoimmune disease, with allergy being a prime example, seems to be more common in developed countries. One common (although not universally accepted) hypothesis is that the autoimmune system overreacts when it doesn't have anything to do, or otherwise malfunctions if not exposed to pathogens when young. First world countries are so clean and disinfected that our immune systems have started to break down. The idea of increasing exposure to allergens has actually become mainstream enough that the director of the NIH recommends early exposure for kids at risk of peanut allergy (although does caution this isn't universal advice--some allergies probably are just genetic and not caused by a modern sterile environment). The allergies are very real--no amount of psychology will change your immune system's antibodies (although a friend of mine indicated they were able to slightly reduce their peanut allergy as an adult participating in an exposure study).

If you're wondering what the CW angle is, you may notice (if you're familiar with Jonathan Haidt's work, or Nassim Taleb's notion of antifragility) the similarity to the generally-accepted biological fact that muscles grow by being damage, and bones heal stronger than they were to start, and the hypothesis that we need exposure to psychological and emotional adversity in order to be able to handle disagreement and discomfort. And indeed, Haidt uses these biological mechanisms as analogies in his presentations (see the section starting around 26:00 in https://youtube.com/watch?v=B5IGyHNvr7E&ab_channel=PennStateMcCourtneyInstituteforDemocracy). By telling pregnant mothers whose babies are at risk of peanut allergies not to consume any peanuts, we've increased peanut allergies. Are we doing the same for immune systems more generally with excess cleanliness, and for human psychology with helicopter parenting (and general excess adult supervision)?

bones heal stronger than they were to start

Actually false

Interesting, thanks! The linked article is paywalled, but this one isn't: https://www.hackensackmeridianhealth.org/en/HealthU/2021/08/02/do-broken-bones-heal-stronger

This article does say that the surrounding bone weakens due to lack of use (I believe astronauts have to do a lot of exercises to overcome this weakening) so I think bones still count as antifragile, but the common knolwedge being wrong is good to know.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats