Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
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It's amazing to me that Jake Paul, a person I've only been peripherally aware of, has managed to reinvent professional wrestling from first principles, and make absurd money doing so.
For those blissfully unaware, Paul is a former disney channel actor and youtube personality who started setting up tomato-can pro boxing matches some years back, and slowly worked his way up through a series of has-beens to grandpa Mike Tyson. Whether those fights were on the level and he just won against bad opponents, or if they were works, is a matter of debate. Last night he organized a fight with a real contender, former heavyweight champ and olympic medalist Anthony Joshua, a fight that Paul was in no way qualified for, and in which he would certainly be murdered if Joshua chose. But, a fight for which each fighter stands to make around $90,000,000.
I feel like a crazy person seeing twitter fill with people gloating that Paul lost. As though that hasn't been the goal of building him up as a heel for years now, to set up a huge cash in when he faced a real boxer and people tuned in to watch him lose. That's always been the way of professional wrestling, build up a heel, make him win so that people hate him and tune in to watch him lose, until it's time for the big moment.
And people BET ON IT. This is like betting on the outcome of a TV show. How are gambling commissions allowing that to happen?
The phrase is overused, but generational wealth was produced in this spectacle. And I feel like I understand the past better. It was a classic "dumb guy" trait in TV and movies when I was a kid, especially older stuff, that stupid people believed that professional wrestling was real. And now I'm seeing people, many of them otherwise intelligent fight sport observers I follow, act like Paul's rejiggered version of professional wrestling is real. And they think they're the clever ones.
Gambling commissions are fine with Kalshi bets on who Taylor Swift will invite to her wedding, bets on who Trump will pick as Fed chair and so on, where obviously at least some people will have material non-public information before the wider market.
Polymarket is in flagrant violation of the ammended Onion Futures Act by offering prediction markets on the box office revenue of Hollywood movies.
I mean just look at this shit. The CFTC is asleep at the wheel.
Polymarket only has limited CFTC approval for some contracts in the US (officially) right now, it’s Kalshi that has much more freedom and they’ve signalled they’re fine with.
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Aren't prediction markets regulated by the CFTC?
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Seemingly every month I find a new reason to dislike online gambling. It's becoming an intellectual doubt I have about a lot of the rationalist "gambling is a tax on bullshit" types.
It is a tax on bullshit. The problem is that taxing bullshit impovershes 90% of the population.
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I think the trend in influencer boxing is kind of a good thing insofar as it inspires otherwise directionless young men to gain some martial prowess.
But end of the day I'm bored of the pointless spectacle of this type of exhibition. Nobody's earning any real glory here, and we're definitely not getting to see the pinnacle of the sport, with the best competitors squaring off under a 'fair' ruleset and neutral officiants. Even if they're fighting 'for real' we're not really getting a definitive measure of who the better competitor is.
Oh, and you can just add in that the other Paul brother literally performs in the WWE.
So diversifying out to a different combat sport is probably part of the strategy.
Sometimes feels like we're hitting the purest distillation of sports as a moneymaking enterprise. The Athletic performance and outcome of the contests becoming fully secondary to the amount of money that can be earned from the spectacle. Get enough people to watch and to bet on the outcome (on both sides) and it no longer matters so much if you win or lose.
Which Jake Paul seems to have realized.
Where every single sports league is 100% commodified and there's no remaining connection between the team as an entity and their geographic location. You might as well play all the games in the same place at a certain point, why bother making the teams travel all around to play the games anymore? Make the fans fly to you! And it'll make it easier for players to swap to new teams too.
Hell, they should make it so that teams can trade players with each other during the games, that would add some interesting chaos! Its not like there's much loyalty left in the system, too much money to be made.
When all it means to be a 'fan' of a team is to throw money at them and let your emotional state be dictated by their performance. Its not like you can say you grew up in the same town as them, went to the same school, or share any genetic lineage with them. These are top talents scouted from around the country, often around the world, and you get to pay to watch them play, what does it matter whether they're wearing the same logo that you are?
I'm sure its been this way for a while, but yeah, even when its not blatantly scripted like pro wrestling, feels like the fix is always in, the game is designed to profit the players (and coaches, and owners, and advertisers...) and the fans, spectators and bettors are just there to provide the liquidity.
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Did he not already lose to the far less impressive Tommy Fury?
Edit: what I mean is, this doesn't seem like a part of this "story arc" progression.
Yeah but him losing a narrow decision to a reasonably okay boxer wasn't the payoff people wanted at all. They wanted to see him get pulverized.
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Yup. And then he'll build up another winning streak against broke guys, and the haters will work themselves into a fine lather about how they want to see him humbled, and then there will be another big payday against a name.
It's classic professional wrestling storyline building. Your heel beats a bunch of fan favorites, with the crowd tuning in to watch him lose, until it's time to cash in and let him lose.
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Jake Paul beat Ben Askren. Why is Anthony Joshua a real contender but Ben Askren isn't?
Jake Paul beat Tyron Woodley twice. Why is Anthony Joshua a real contender but Tyron Woodley isn't?
Jake Paul beat Nate Diaz. Why is Anthony Joshua a real contender but Nate Diaz isn't?
It's been years of, "Jake/Logan Paul are decent amateurs, but they have no chance in this next fight is against a real athlete," and then Paul knocks the guy out. Would you have predicted beforehand that this is exactly where Jake Paul's career would plateau?
You possess no knowledge on this subject. That's fine, most people don't. But no one who does has been especially surprised by the actual outcome of any of Jake Paul's fights. He's defeated some over-the-hill MMA guys, the elderly husk of Tyson, and even a couple of random journeyman boxers here and there, but then he fought an actual serious world-tier heavyweight and got crushed.
That said, personally I really don't mind him. Honestly for how late he got started on the sport he's not bad, and the slobs he's fought are the type lots of guys start out fighting, especially guys without amateur experience. He might be some kind of edgelord by YouTube standards but until he rapes someone or gets some mob ties he's still a cuddlebug by boxing standards.
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Dude, are you asking a serious question?
Askren, Woodley, and Diaz were MMA fighters, not professional boxers, and they all fought at 155 or 170. Joshua boxes at heavyweight, where he was once world champion. Joshua is definitionally a ranked contender in boxing, the others never were. There's no universe where an MMA welterweight and a heavyweight champion are comparable fighters. To say nothing of the difference in leverage and earnings.
I couldn't have predicted in advance the outcome of Jake's fights any more than I can predict what will happen in the next episode of a sitcom. But I can tell you how the plot arc will end.
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