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America is a lot like Russia. It sees itself as the defender of Europe and the bulwark of European values. Meanwhile actual Europeans see them as a bunch of borderline-savages, and as much of a threat as the are a protector.
Part of why America is being so miserly today though is that it genuinely doesn’t have much to give. It’s heavy industry is gone, and other countries have caught up enough on its technological edge that it can’t cruise by on fancy widgets. And the people are too pissed off and distrustful of their government and economy to eat the half a million deaths that a major war requires.
Old Scranton Joe was more generous with the aid to Ukraine than the Don, but he was being a lot more miserly than Europe and the American deep state wanted. He was a bit out to lunch, but his one real red-line policy position that he was cogent of and involved in was no American ground troops in Ukraine. And the delusional deep state flacks (who mostly happen to be Butthurt Belt exiles) hated him for it. That’s why they turfed him out in favor of Kamala, an out-of-her depth human hamburger that would do whatever the CIA told her to.
The Biden administration's limits went a lot further than that - as a matter of vibes it was "nothing that could be considered as a direct confrontation between NATO and Russia because of the risk of nuclear armageddon" and more specifically it included
The restrictions on Ukraine using British kit to attack into Crimea or Russia proper were relaxed by the lame-duck Biden administration, and never reimposed by Trump.
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Well Russia is also clearly divergent from the «Western Civilization» the central example of which is obviously Western Europe, eg France. In the most divergent dimensions, Russians are just living the way Europeans did 200 years ago, and that's enough to be seen as basically a species of non-human vermin and infinitely more distant than the Japanese or Koreans. People are massively sensitive to morally coded deviations, but big structural differences don't necessarily register. Dealing with an «alien civilization», so long as it's at all functional, is not psychologically harder than dealing with a «wayward cousin».
But I don't think so. Like, 200 years ago was 1820s. That's the time just after French revolution and Napoleonic wars. Britain in the meantime held regular parliamentary elections (though not with universal vote yet). I don't think anybody would look on European culture of late pre-Victorian era and regard it as "species of non-human vermin". Yes, there would be some things there that we may consider outdated, but "infinitely distant"? Russia, however, never embraced the values that Europeans held at that time - like the concept of personal authonomy, limited participatory government, pursuit of rational knowledge for the betterment of humanity, etc. Not that these values by itself don't have problems, and surely European implementation of them had plenty of flaws, but the point is it was something they valued, and Russia didn't value it then and doesn't now.
Yet I think Brits looked at Kaiser's Germany and saw exactly that, even a century later. Was Germany not European? Of course, the entire «Evropa» concept is retconned, Europeans didn't think of themselves as a unified culture. They could talk a good game about shared White superiority compared to other races, but they easily dehumanized each other too. Russia was at the margins of Europe, but it's a matter of timing and degree, not kind. Prussia was another outlier. When did their absolute monarchy end, 1848?
Chutzpah. Soviets bought the rational knowledge stuff hook line and sinker, 80s-90s were a time of genuine enthusiasm about democracy human rights, and even today Putin pretends to be an elected representative with all the dressings of a parliamentary system. You know this, of course.
Yes, but this is war propaganda. You can not judge war propaganda on the same footing as genuine cultural standards. In the absence of war, nobody in Britain though Goethe, Schiller, Wagner, Bach, Beethoven, Strauss, (insert 9000 names here) were brute apelike savages. Nobody thought Euler, Gauss, Cantor, Bayer, Daimler, Zeiss, (insert another 9000 names here) were illiterate idiots. Yes, English, French, Germans (when they finally appeared, and every flavor of them before) and so on squabbled constantly and dissed on each other constantly. But there's no doubt they were closer culturally to each other - and they knew it - then, say, to Japanese, or Chinese, or Russians, or Mongolians, or Zimbabweans. Yes, that did not prevent them from killing each other, nothing ever does. But they never genuinely considered each other's cultures subhuman vermin.
It is true, the communists were modernist rationalists. But they also were internationalists - which meant, they wanted nothing to do with the old Russia (they tried to do away with everything traditional, including alphabet, calendar, holidays, names, etc. - with varied degrees of success, modernism has its limits, as they soon learned). And as soon as communists were overthrown - actually, as soon as their revolutionary fervor weakened - modernist rationalism went away. All kinds of esoteric new-age mysticism became popular already in 1970s, and in late 1980s-90s had absolutely bizarre things going on (read about Alan Chumak and Anatoly Kashpirovsky, for example). So, as Russia were returning to its traditional national values (Orthodox Christianity started its resurgence about the same time) rationalism's popularity faded.
I'm sure Chinese and North Koreans pretend even harder, but nobody - including themselves - believes in this pretense. And, what is very important, nobody cares, especially in Russia - Russians are completely fine with fake elections, because they don't really value free elections - they are completely ok with fake-electing the same Tzar for life, if he doesn't treat them too badly (in this case, they'd kill him and put on a new Tzar for life). Everybody in Russia knows elections are fake and the parliament is a dressing for what Putin wants, with less power than medieval nobles' assemblies under absolute monarchs. They are absolutely fine with it.
All this is special pleading.
Is the current perception of Russians not war propaganda? In times of peace, or even during the Cold War, our high culture was considered continuous with the European one in a manner that high Japanese or Zimbabwean culture obviously wasn't, and the Russian thinking class was deeply integrated into the European network, worked and studied in Europe. I don't feel the need to namedrop. Now, of course, irate Ukrainians get a platform to claim that Pushkin was a mediocre imperialist savage or demand reassignment of historically recognized national identities of scientists. But that's noise. Rhetoric about a small sliver of «basically Aryan» elite and the mass of subhuman orc peasants underneath is likewise motivated and unchanged since Nazi rationalizations of their losses. Sure, Russia is relatively less productive than the highest tier of Western European states, and was later to the party. A difference in degree, not kind.
I believe this is retconning, the cancerous nature of German culture was a legitimate topic of debate. But the point is not so much how they regarded each other at the time as how a modern day enlightened Brit or a French would view a normal 19th century European, with his belligerence and his backwards views on various social matters.
I get that you emigrated around that time and will never refuse to dunk on the Slav goyim. But by this standard, how is the US part of the rational knowledge tradition? 100+ million Evangelicals, megachurches, charismatic pastors, absurd sects, widespread science skepticism and conspiracy theorizing, Psi as a legitimate military research field, open appeals to theology in policymaking. On the other hand, the US happens to have the world's premier scientific institutions and technical companies. Russia can't boast of the same, it merely has better IT sphere than all of Europe and some universities supplying talent to American megacorps. Rationalism has never and nowhere been default mass culture.
There's no Orthodox resurgence as of 2025, Russia is a transparently secular state, despite government's awkward efforts to astroturf belief.
And I'm sure this is poorly thought-out rhetoric because no, neither Kim nor Xi pretend to be elected, as there is no institution of general elections of leaders in those nations. «Representing the people» from @Eetan is absurd goalpost movement – is L'État, c'est moi a claim to have democratic mandate as well?
You're shoehorning it.
Depending on whose perception we're talking about. Some of the media is surely full war propaganda, but I am not talking about this, I am talking about general cultural perception beyond that.
When was it exactly? I am not sure which period you are talking about. Sure, in some periods many Russian aristocrats didn't even speak Russian, preferring French instead (just open War and Peace and see how it starts - hint, it's not in Russian) - but they as well might have been other nation entirely (and to be honest, sometimes that's who they were, though I guess Americans don't have much reason to cast stones here). The problem is, however fascinated Russian aristocracy were with European culture, political ideas of European classical liberalism never taken any root in Russia, outside of a few kitchens and magazines. Even Pushkin, if you mentioned him already, was kinda torn between being attracted to European freedom ideals, and his imperial obligations as Russian national poet, so every side now can find a suitable quote from him. But those ideas were mainly for the elite, and even for them they were rarely more than theoretical talk to be enjoyed between peers.
You must be kidding me. Russian leaders officially participate in religious ceremonies, and the Orthodox Church is pretty much integrated into Vertical of Power. Including performing ceremonies of blessing for space rockets and strategic bombers. Which btw I have no problem with - if they believe it, that's their complete right to pray however they like and worship however they like - but calling this situation "transparently secular" is nonsense. Of course, officially Russia is not a theocracy, but a secular state, but practically, Orthodox Church has a very elevated status and influence. And it continues to spread - for example, since 2026 one of mandatory school subjects will be "Духовно-нравственная культура России" - official indoctrination course, developed jointly by MGU and the Orthodox Church.
If we're talking about private beliefs, Christianity stated to become fashionable among Russia's intelligentsia right about 70s, as I said. Sure, there are still a lot of atheists - Soviets worked on that quite thoroughly and those generations are still alive and largely in power - but I think it is appropriate to call it "resurgence".
This is the second time you use words which make me suspect you have problems with Jews. Is that right? Speak plainly - are you an ideological anti-Semite, or do you think using antisemitic tropes somehow makes you cool kid? I am willing to engage with opposing opinion, but I see no point in engaging with somebody who considers me subhuman on genetic level.
When the only thing you see of religion is the performative sprinkles on top, I would call that "transparently secular", yes. The church leadership being integrated into the bigwig club does not make it integrated into the entire country.
I won't be as uncouth as to count myself among the intelligentsia, but purely anecdotally as a Russian urbanite, among all the people I know, there is one that comes from a religious family that I know of, and none openly religious themselves.
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Still, huh.
Sorry, you don't know shit about "private beliefs" of Russians. Please save these insights for hangouts of retirees in Brighton Beach. Russian state-backed theocracy has about as much penetration as Hungarian traditionalism and pronatalism. (Also "not Western" I guess).
I think that you in particular, JarJarJedi, are a very annoying, very stereotypical Russophobic Soviet Jew emigre, bitter about his treatment back in Russia/USSR or pre-Soviet pogroms or whatever else, who feels entitled to characterize Russians as de facto subhumans and gerrymanders historical Russian cultural achievements so that they're overwhelmingly attributed to "not really Russians" (ie Jews and Western Europeans, or at least "Russians who were effectively not Russians", circularly creating a distinction between Russian and European high culture); you're too weaselly to spell it out like this; and I do not recognize your entitlement to do this or to question me on my prejudices.
Your DARVO is also not appreciated. You're not as clever as you think.
Sorry, you are not a foremost expert of what do I know. I actually know personally quite a few Russians and talk to them regularly (at least once a week, often more). And of course, I read a lot of what was written about Soviet intelligentsia in 70s-90s, that I could not witness by myself - it's not exactly dark ages. But if you think that personal attacks in the style of early post-soviet Usenet (oh those were the days!) is a convincing argument, you may not "know shit" about what proper argument actually is. That is why you may be confusing one with ad-hominem attacks.
I never did that. Russians, of course, are very human, as much human as any human. They have different traditions and cultural values than some other people, but that's a common human trait - Japanese culture is very different from Arabic or Bolivian culture, and that doesn't make any of those subhuman. I am just commenting on the various aspects of Russian/Soviet culture I had an opportunity to observe and am still observing.
I don't think me annoying you is a negative quality, I can not be judge about how stereotypical I am, and I am a Jew who have emigrated, there's no denying that. I however object to being characterized as "Russophobic" - and extremely object to being described as "Soviet".
Wha? I never even discussed Russian achievements and didn't attribute them to anybody. I don't know who hurt you, but it wasn't me. Just to remove the doubt, sure, Russians had a lot of cultural achievements. I love Pushkin (though still not entirely getting Tolstoy, to be honest). OK, Pushkin is actually not that good an example, to think about it... How about Tutchev then? He's good too. Speaking seriously though, you are maliciously misinterpreting my words - which had nothing to do with attributing Russian cultural achievements at all. Looks like you're in active search of offense to fit me into a stereotype you have in your head. I imagine it's simpler that way.
I think if you have to take the fifth on the question of whether you're an antisemite, that's answer enough, thank you. You may notice I can answer questions on my presumed prejudices directly and resolutely, while you can not. And I think we both know why.
Maybe I am not very clever. But if you consider yourself a "victim" of me, justifying your use of antisemitic tropes, I would like to know how exactly did I victimize and offend you. What triggered you the most?
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No, it is exactly opposite. It does not mean "I am humble servant of the people" but "The people must serve the state, this means me".
Kings of ancient regime derived their legitimacy from divine will, royal blood and tradition, and if anyone hadn't like it, too bad for the rebel scum.
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This is the case all over the world. Every regime except Taliban and Gulf monarchies claim to represent "the people" and rule in their name, every colonel who just gained power by coup says he is really defending democracy. Last man who failed to conform to this unwritten rule was late Emperor Bokassa the First.
Looks like total Western cultural victory. When you start seeing various strongmen repudiating this charade and crowning themselves as kings, sultans and maharajahs, you will know that Western supremacy is fading and multipolar, multicultural world arrived for real.
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The French are a dying cucked people. Why should anyone care what they say? They are to be pitied and an object lesson of what not to do; not a group to be modeled.
France is likely to be the last euro country standing.
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I think this applied to both Americans and Russians.
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