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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   3339 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for February 15, 2026

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Guncels, in, in, in.

I shot my Ruger 10/22 on Saturday, after putting the Sig Romeo 5 on it. I had a lot of fun shooting it while sighting it in, but I didn't ultimately get it all the way sighted in because the rail started to come loose. I'm going to have to apply some blue Loctite and screw it in again. Ruger apparently does not recommend the use of blue Loctite, and I hoped to avoid using it, but it appears necessary. The gunsmith told me it would be okay.

Shooting with a red dot on a rifle is a much smoother experience than shooting with iron sights on a pistol, I guess mainly because you have many more points of contact with the gun so it's easier to keep it steady. Even though it's not sighted in perfectly, I have never managed to get that many hits in at 50 yards, though it's been like, ten years since I ever tried it.

I also attended a skeet shooting event, since the gunsmith invited me to it. I followed a group around as they shot. It was fun just watching them and listening to their banter, and I was grateful for my Walker's Razor electronic ear muffs for letting me hear them pretty well even with hearing protection on. All of them, except for me, had expensive break-action over/under shotguns, apparently averaging around $3,000 each. Expensive hobby! On the other hand, a break-action shotgun is great for safety. Everyone who wasn't shooting kept their shotgun broken open over their shoulder until it was their turn, and you can clearly see if a gun is ready to fire or not if it's a break-action. Clay shooting sports are very popular around here. On invitation, I tried shooting some myself; out of 6 singles, I managed to hit exactly one. At least the one felt pretty good, but it clearly needs a lot of practice.

Skeet is not where you are supposed to start clay shooting. Trap is easier to start on. However, there's a lot of stiff competition here, and I'm not about to drop $3,000 on a gun for a sport that I'm likely never going to be good at. For aspiring clay shooters on The Motte, I recommend just getting a friend with a shotgun and dicking around with the clay thrower to see if you like it. I shot like that once in college; one of the guys in the dorms had a dad with a clay thrower, so one of the dorm events was shooting his shotguns and hitting some real easy clay throws over a swamp. It's a far cry from shooting 100 clays in a day in a competition, but it should be fun, and you don't need a super expensive shotgun to do it. You can get a Maverick 88 for probably around $300. Ideally, you'd get one of the deals with both an 18 inch barrel and a 28 inch barrel so you can get the most out of the shotgun.

Anyway, to cap this off, my mom sucks at shooting her 9mm. She's probably jerking the gun around too much immediately before firing, but I don't know how to fix it, since she doesn't practice. I kinda wanted to try putting a red dot on my Ruger Mark IV to see if she could make more consistent shots with that, and then if she can, try getting her gun milled and putting the optic on that. Otherwise, this could be a use case for the Ruger PCC. Sure, it's not the most ideal rifle, but with an optic, it would be a lot more accurate than a pistol. I don't feel as bad about buying something that isn't optimal if I get to hand it off to someone else once I'm done having my fun with it.

Probably I won't buy a new gun for a while, though. Gun owning is all a LARP anyway. Maybe I'll get some dummy 12 gauge rounds and an 18 inch barrel for my Mossberg 500 and just practice with it a bunch.

Got a favorite pistol optic?

and you don't need a super expensive shotgun to do it

Can confirm. I brought my 1897 trap shooting, came in dead last in the friend group but if my friend group wasn't a bunch of turbo-autist guncels I'd have done very respectably, especially considering I was running an 18.5" while everyone else was running 24"+. Though I did manage to nail two clays slam-firing, which nobody else did, so who really won?

Got a favorite pistol optic?

Right now I'm really digging the Holosun SCS, mostly because it direct mounts to a Glock MOS footprint and I'm still utterly befuddled that apparently no other pistol optic manufacturer thought to make a direct mount to the most popular handgun in the world's factory optics cut. Also it has serrations that match up to Glock slide serrations so it actually looks nice. Again, such a small thing but still scratching my head that nobody else thought of it first.

I'm looking to pick up a FAL next I think, maaaybe a 1301 if someone posts a smoking deal on reddit. My "practical" guns are all filled out and I've gotten my grubby paws on most of the easily accessibly milsurp that interests me.

Re: your mom, if the problem is what you think, and consistent range time is the big limiting factor, consider getting her a laser training system. You put a dummy round with a laser light in and can practice smooth firing/trigger pulling in your living room. You record the target on your phone and an app tracks your progress, runs you through drills, etc.

Oh man, that's a great idea. That's a lot cheaper than buying a new optic and getting a slide milled. Thanks man.

Edit: Dude I am looking at a review of this thing and it's basically perfect. Thank you so much for telling me about this. This would be good even for me.

Edit 2: Apparently you don't even need this stuff, you can just get a 9mm training cartridge by itself for $10 instead of $150. Awesome!

No problem, I got given one for Christmas a couple of years ago and it was great.

I'm a guncel, in the sense that I'd very much like to own a gun but have the unfortunate reality of living in jurisdictions where that's impossible or a PITA.

Shooting with a red dot on a rifle is a much smoother experience than shooting with iron sights on a pistol, I guess mainly because you have many more points of contact with the gun so it's easier to keep it steady. Even though it's not sighted in perfectly, I have never managed to get that many hits in at 50 yards, though it's been like, ten years since I ever tried it.

I noticed this quickly in VR. Pistols are counterintuitive in a manner that rifles aren't, when I try and use red dots with them, I realize that I'm always holding them too low by default, and that the sight picture is an absolute pain to maintain (H3VR, the VR gun sim).

Hell, rifles are so much better in general. Point shooting is so much easier when you have the gun shouldered (even when that's simulated) and the longer barrel gives your eyes and brain a much better picture of where the muzzle is pointing.

Have you tried airsoft yet? I kind of want to myself, but I don't know if there are any facilities near me. With airsoft, you get to shoot other people, which is an application that you can't really explore with a real gun. It seems like it would be fun.

Otherwise, I don't think it's totally impossible to shoot a shotgun in the UK, is it? That's fun. One of my four guns is a pump shotgun. You'll have to visit a Mottizen in a freer state when you eventually visit America. You like pistols better, or rifles? You like milsurp or modern AR bullshit?

which is an application that you can't really explore with a real gun

There are places with a yellow-and-blue color theme that are ready to prove you wrong.

I've had my eye on it, but my milsim buddies who do play it live rather far from me :(

My impression is that it's less developed as a hobby in the UK, as compared to the States. Sure, it has a following, but it's quite limited.

I'm open to it, but it's not quite what I'm looking for:

  • I do enjoy a bit of the old LARP, but I actually am quite happy doing it in video games. There is a non-obvious tradeoff here: video games explore some aspects of the modern military experience better than most things short of an actual military training exercise can manage. It would be pretty hard to bring a tank or helicopter into play in airsoft, or the experience of being under sustained artillery bombardment while your buddy bleeds out next to you. Video games scratch that itch pretty well for me. Airsoft is great for other things, but I'm not that set on hiding in bushes or kicking down doors in real life.
  • I like actual guns. I'd like to own a Gucci d out AR-15 and a AR-10/DMR. I'd like to take it down to the range or go shoot tin cans with friends. It matters to me that the gun is an actual gun that shoots real bullets, even if I don't particularly want to use it in anger. I could, like many people, spend a ton on accurate parts for an airsoft kit, but it wouldn't make me happy. For that much money, I want the real deal.

Otherwise, I don't think it's totally impossible to shoot a shotgun in the UK, is it? That's fun. One of my four guns is a pump shotgun. You'll have to visit a Mottizen in a freer state when you eventually visit America. You like pistols better, or rifles? You like milsurp or modern AR bullshit?

I must (with slight shame) admit that I like "cool" guns. Tacticool, with all the drip. I could, in theory, get a gun license here (it's an enormous PITA) but I don't want to shoot a hunting shotgun or some ancient bolt-action rifle. I want a laser with a pad, I want an LPVO, I want to fuss over the perfect foregrip even if I'll end up using a c-clamp. Ideally, I want to go to Vegas and shoot an M60 while doing my best Rambo impression (before my limp arms or the rangemaster get the better of me).

I was actually planning on getting my hands on an actual firearm in the US. A dear friend of mine was getting married in Texas, which would have been the perfect opportunity. Sadly the visa officers at the London embassy disagreed with my ambitions. I still do plan to visit the States when I have a decent excuse, and you bet that going to the range is very high on the bucket list! I'm going to shoot hogs with a Barrett from a helicopter at some point in my life, or I've never really lived.

I'll keep an eye open for airsoft events in my end of Scotland, and if I can rent a kit for not too much money, why not? Thanks for hearing me dream aloud, haha.

Haha, your situation is too tragic for Scotland. I hope you manage to visit America someday.

I don't have anything tacticool yet. Actually, Illinois is probably passing another law, this one called the RIFL Act, so that gun manufacturers need to pay a bunch of money to Illinois to get a license to sell in the state, and if they don't, then FFLs can't even sell those manufacturers' products or they get fined. So I might have to pick up something marginally more tacticool soon, or I will have to drive to Missouri to buy anything (actually, that's not so bad anyway...). None of the neutered ARs that I want are in stock. Probably I'm going to end up buying a Ruger PCC in 9mm. But even if I lived in a freer state, I don't know if my guns would be as tacticool as you like. I probably wouldn't bother with foregrips; just a red dot and a light, and maybe a magnifier for the red dot. Oh, and maybe a suppressor.

I would recommend making a friend who owns an MP5 clone or similar. AP5 or Stribog, something roller delayed. I'm interested in them, myself. Apparently 9mm has more recoil than .223, which was shocking news to me. But if it's roller delayed, then it's less recoil. You also need to visit a range that lets you rent full auto guns. You also need to shoot a full magazine out of a semi-automatic shotgun. You also need to shoot an AK or an SKS. You also need to shoot USSR pistols. You also need to shoot a lever action. Please, plan accordingly.

Haha, your situation is too tragic for Scotland. I hope you manage to visit America someday.

Truer words have never been spoken.

I don't have anything tacticool yet. Actually, Illinois is probably passing another law, this one called the RIFL Act, so that gun manufacturers need to pay a bunch of money to Illinois to get a license to sell in the state, and if they don't, then FFLs can't even sell those manufacturers' products or they get fined. So I might have to pick up something marginally more tacticool soon, or I will have to drive to Missouri to buy anything (actually, that's not so bad anyway...).

My condolences, that sounds like a pain. I seem to recall that transporting a gun across state borders is also a major pain, but I'm sure you know better than I would.

I don't know if my guns would be as tacticool as you like. I probably wouldn't bother with foregrips; just a red dot and a light, and maybe a magnifier for the red dot. Oh, and maybe a suppressor.

That sounds plenty tacticool to me! Now that you mention it, my dream gun absolutely has to have a suppressor, even if the licensing is a ball ache.

I would recommend making a friend who owns an MP5 clone or similar. AP5 or Stribog, something roller delayed. I'm interested in them, myself. Apparently 9mm has more recoil than .223, which was shocking news to me. But if it's roller delayed, then it's less recoil.

How does one specifically look for friends with MP5 clones? I imagine that involves lurking on gun boards, but I'd be laughed out of the room when they learn of my cursed place of residence haha.

Hmm.. A quick Google says you're right on the recoil. I imagine that both platforms are mild enough that it's not an issue!

You also need to visit a range that lets you rent full auto guns. You also need to shoot a full magazine out of a semi-automatic shotgun. You also need to shoot an AK or an SKS. You also need to shoot USSR pistols. You also need to shoot a lever action. Please, plan accordingly.

I have been a good boy and saved most of my salary. I can start to see why I bothered. I'm sure my girlfriend will understand the paper-mache engagement ring. I can probably pass of a necklace made of spent brass as a particularly avant garde American invention. Pray that ammunition prices recover, and that the range passes it on to poor tourists like me.

USSR pistols? Do you mean an actual Soviet handgun? I don't see anything else online! What do they offer that a Western handgun doesn't?

My condolences, that sounds like a pain. I seem to recall that transporting a gun across state borders is also a major pain, but I'm sure you know better than I would.

Not really. Just unload it and keep the ammo and the gun separate and you should be totally fine, I think. Don't get pulled over, just to be safe.

How does one specifically look for friends with MP5 clones? I imagine that involves lurking on gun boards, but I'd be laughed out of the room when they learn of my cursed place of residence haha.

I'm not sure! If I ever move out of this state and pick one up, though, I'll let you know. That's something worth paying $200 to make into an SBR, I think. And then another $200 to add the suppressor. Again, I'm thinking of picking up a Ruger PCC; that's straight-blowback and strictly worse than an AR in every way except for noise and cost of ammo, but perhaps it will satisfy you. Otherwise I would be surprised if no one else on the forum invited you to go shoot.

I have been a good boy and saved most of my salary. I can start to see why I bothered. I'm sure my girlfriend will understand the paper-mache engagement ring. I can probably pass of a necklace made of spent brass as a particularly avant garde American invention. Pray that ammunition prices recover, and that the range passes it on to poor tourists like me.

The last three that I listed should be reasonably cheap, at least!

I meant Cold War era guns in 9x18mm. The caliber is a little different, but I like them aesthetically for their all-metal construction. I shot a P64 once, it was pretty darn cool. I could have bid on an FEG PA-63 and won it for real cheap at a gun auction, but I didn't, and I seriously regret not bidding on it now...

My impression is that it's less developed as a hobby in the UK, as compared to the States. Sure, it has a following, but it's quite limited.

I haven't come across Airsoft, but paintball is fairly common - there are multiple sites within commuting distance of London, and most of them send a minibus to the nearest station every Saturday morning.

Clay pigeon shooting is also easily accessible in southern England (given UK gun laws, it is the main entry point into shooting sports), although you probably want a car to access it.

Paintball is even more divorced from my interests I'm afraid, but thank you for the suggestions!

I want to go to Vegas and shoot an M60 while doing my best Rambo impression

I didn't know you were a Stephen Paddock fan.

Yeah, this is one of those funny bits of history that is fascinating to look at in a “reading philosophy backwards” sense. The Weaver stance wasn’t invented until 1959; until then, the overwhelming majority of practical pistol training used dorky-seeming point shooting approaches that largely ignored sight picture when standing. Before even that, the familiar “dueling stance” wasn’t a mere formalism, but an approach believed to help best with standing aim.

There’s military doctrine reasons that the field advanced so slowly, and I’m sure some people predated Weaver, but it’s goofy as hell that it took 40+ years of people using the 1911 before they would seriously try to aim with it.

but an approach believed to help best with standing aim.

Come to think of it: doctrine from instructors invented in the 1800s = 100ish years of single-action revolver (including cap-and-ball) dominance = you were only really able to have one hand on the gun.

And given the number of cartridge conversions of those guns, to the point where .36 (.38 Special) and .45 (.45 Colt) are literally hold-overs from the C&B era, just couldn't afford to buy anything else- it's maybe a little less surprising that doctrine around "one hand on the gun's all you need" persisted.

I've wondered if people who started plunking with pistols as children developed intuitive aiming.

On the other hand I've heard that the M1 Carbine was developed as an alternative for guards that wouldn't be issued M1 Garands (too heavy for infrequent use) after they were unable to find any record of a guard successfully killing an enemy soldier with a 1911.

There’s military doctrine reasons that the field advanced so slowly

Yes, it would be cool if every grunt was universal starship stormtrooper trained to use every weapon or tool from nuclear artillery to toothpick with maximal skill and efficiency, but time (and learning ability) is limited and you have to prioritize.

IRL, if you find yourself in situation when you face the enemy and only thing you have is pistol, you are 99,99% hosed regardless of your marksmanship. (not always, see the famous knife fight from Ukraine trench, where knife fighting skill made a difference)

I think that's part of it, but there was some serious pistol training for some roles in WWII and even WWI. My impression -- and I'll admit I missed the whole 'got assigned a bit of military history as a special interest' thing, so I may well be running on pop history here -- is that doctrine just favored minimizing vulnerability and prioritizing speed of fire, instead. That's a weird decision as an offensive weapon given the limited magazine capacities of the time, but given the realities of trench and urban warfare of the time, may have been reasonable.

It's just strange in retrospect.

What are your thoughts on resting a pistol on the crook of your forearm (elbow bent into an L horizontally, gun resting on the elbow)? I've done it in VR because it looks cool, and kinda works to help with stability and arm fatigue, but I don't know how that translates to an actual gun. The Weaver stance doesn't really translate, because most VR controllers would physically intersect. Sigh, I wish I had a real gun, preferably three.

I've never tried that on a range, and I don't think I've seen it on one. With some snap caps it was doable but not comfortable, and maintaining a sight picture even while standing still felt rougher than strong-hand-only, and while moving it was actively frustrating. Didn't feel either terrible or strong from a recoil management perspective, though without live fire that can be misleading.

That said, I'm not particularly strong as a pistol shooter (and mostly stick to .22 and .380) myself and definitely far from an ISPDA pro, so big grain of salt. There may be advantages that aren't obvious, or I might just not be good enough to use it properly (or even position it properly). That said, if you're having fun with it for VR shooting, that's all that really matters when fighting with H3vr.

If they're not banned in your jurisdiction (and not 'legal-but-sketchy' a la UK), springer or compressed air pistols can be an inexpensive and indoors-friendly option. Won't get you much a grip on what recoil's like, but the difference between 22 and heavier-duty airsoft is smaller than you'd expect.

Hell yeah. I put a Romeo 5 on my basic-bitch AR and I have no regrets.

You’ll find that a red dot on a pistol is also vastly superior to irons. It’s just more intuitive. With modern batteries, the downside is basically just form factor. Caveat: my pistols are waaaay too old for a red dot, so I’ve only used them on others’ guns. Maybe spending your own money on it immediately ruins the effect :)

There is absolutely no way you need to spend $3000 on an over/under. Dicking around with easy throws using your used coach gun is the way to go. Hitting a double pull is such a good feeling, though.

Are we talking cap and ball old, or "would need a custom slide cut" old?

Okay, maybe I was being a little melodramatic. Slide cuts. Not that I wouldn’t love to get in to black powder.

I'm honestly a big fan of holosun for pistols. The reticle is nice if you have bad eyes.

For your 10/22, how's your accuracy? I did a half-assed home "bedding" job using metallic tape around the inside of the receiver inletting on mine, and it took me from two inch groups at 25 yards to quarter sized groups.

Actually surprisingly bad at 50 yards from what I can tell. You can get everything on the sheet of graph paper I was using, but the grouping is not at all what I was expecting. I can't say for sure because it's not sighted in all the way and I had nothing to aim at in the "center" of the graph paper. I was thinking of getting some circular red adhesive target paper or something to slap in the middle of the paper or something to really have something to center on so I can say for sure that my aim is off. That, or some red marker or something. The spread was mostly horizontal, all over the paper. The vertical was very little, but I think I still have the point of impact slightly too high.

With the rifle unloaded and safe, see if you can "wiggle" the receiver inside the stock. The design of the 10/22 puts a lot of faith in a single machine screw, and if the inletting isn't tight, you can get a lot of movement that hinders accuracy.

Alright. How would you fix it whole-assed? Another job for the gunsmith?

Fixing it whole assed would require a new stock, or bedding your existing stock with epoxy.

Theoretically you can do that job yourself, but it's messy and hard to recover if you do it wrong. I'd go to a gunsmith, personally. They can check the barrel for problems at the same time.

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