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Yet Israel's territory has grown larger over time? They gave Sinai back to Egypt after taking Sinai off Egypt, OK. They didn't give back the Golan heights to Syria, they've recently taken more land off Syria. They've been busily taking land off Palestinians in the West Bank for years now, knocking people's houses down or just stealing their houses. Right now they're going into Lebanon perhaps looking to seize more land.
They have this comically villainous strategy in the 'mosquito protocol', using Gazan civilians as human shields, making them enter buildings ahead of IDF troops to clear out explosives or booby traps.
Or they just take potshots at peaceful protestors in Gaza, back in 2019: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/03/one-year-on-from-protests-gaza-civilians-devastating-injuries-highlight-urgent-need-for-arms-embargo-on-israel/
They had huge protests rallying behind soldiers who were briefly arrested for raping prisoners, in support of that kind of activity. You can actually watch video of the Israeli soldiers forming up in this cluster around a prisoner with shields on their backs to block the camera from seeing exactly what happens. There's actual video of an Israeli govt minister saying 'for them, anything is permitted' with regard to sodomizing prisoners with metal objects. The pro-rape faction seems to have decisively won, with the soldiers being freed of all charges.
Countries are formed by taking land, that's how it works. The essence of warfare is inflicting pain and suffering to reach a political goal. But Israel behaves in an especially egregious way for a supposed liberal democracy. Simultaneously they whine and bitch about anti-semitism and claim to be the victim whenever anyone criticises them. Amnesty international is apparently antisemitic, the UN is antisemitic, that American girl they ran over with a bulldozer was probably antisemitic, along with the USS Liberty survivors who maintain they were deliberately attacked. All these Palestinians were born into this world with hatred of Israel in their hearts, we are led to believe. It takes two to tango.
The Israelis go around complaining about Hamas using human shields while they do it themselves. They complain about the terrorism of others when their country was founded by terrorists - they shot a UN-appointed Swedish diplomat Bernadotte for being too pro-Arab, they captured and executed British troops, planned false-flag attacks against the West in Egypt and run a uniquely murderous intelligence agency in Mossad. It's a very obnoxious way for a country to behave. And yet their cheerleaders in the West like PragerU will say that the IDF is the 'most moral army'.
The hypocrisy upsets lots of people. Israel should be treated with the same naked contempt and grasping opportunism they treat other countries. They should be left to fight their own wars, use their own weapons, pay for them too. America has just plunged the world into a major economic crisis over their obsession with Israel, it's not at all a minor issue.
As a side note, this is untrue. J & S / WB belongs to Palestinian Arabs only in the sense that (1) the Arabs successfully ethnically cleansed Jews from the area in the 1930s and 1940s; and (2) under the principles of anti-Israel types, once the Arabs ethnically cleanse Jews from an area, it becomes Palestinian Land forever. So that if Jews return, they are "stealing" land.
Are you just as confident in this claim as you are confident that it was Israel that attacked the girls' school in Iran?
People in the West Bank should have equal rights. Israel should either annex it and give everyone citizenship or withdraw. Creating an interlocking jigsaw of Jewish and Arab towns with the Jewish ones fully integrated into Israel and the Arab ones surrounded little Bantustans is not sustainable or stable.
I am skeptical that the person you are replying to has a sincere interest in discussing this issue with objectivity in mind. He is mixing up the actions of Jordan in 1948 with the Palestinians as a whole. Anyone claiming that Jews get to steal the whole West Bank because 1% of the West Bank prior to 1948 was Jewish (many having arrived only a few years earlier at that), and thus their flight during the war retroactively grants them full ownership of the West Bank (?), is probably not arguing in good faith. Because that’s a genuinely insane line of argument to make.
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That would inevitably lead to a lot of bloodshed. If Israel withdrew, the then almost certainly (1) the Palestinian Arabs would refuse to accept having a Jewish minority in the way that Israel has an Arab minority, rather they would viciously persecute any Jews there; and (2) J & S / WB would be used as a staging ground for terrorist attacks against Israel, except that they would be in a position to cause far more carnage.
I think annexation + citizenship is a better option, but Israel needs to wait until there is a Jewish majority so that Israel's political system won't be overwhelmed with hostile elements who want to destroy the state.
Why not?
The Israelis could do to the West Bank what they did with Gaza -- withdraw all the Jewish settlements by force and let the PA run the whole thing. Why in a million years they would consider doing so given their experience with Gaza, I don't know.
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Notice that completely identical line of reasoning applies to Russian action in Southern and Eastern Ukraine, Although both sides there are leading a much more modern war when it comes to treatment of civilian populations.
Err, no it doesn't, because before the Russians came in the Ukrainians were in no way the Russian's problem.
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This is false. If the Israelis are going in, knocking down houses or just taking them, then that is stealing land. QED. Again, Israel has been expanding in territorial size. Neccessarily this means it must be taking land off of other groups.
Whether it was Israel or America that attacked the girls school in Iran is not of great importance. I recall you were the one implying that it was somehow the Iranians who attacked their own school. Now going 'acktually it was America not Israel that blew up this specific war in an Israeli inspired war against Iran' does not advance any kind of serious position, it's just a lame Parthian shot.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/24/israel-investigates-use-of-palestinians-as-human-shields-by-its-forces-in-gaza
https://x.com/Seanchuckle/status/2034303334044069982
No, you are wrong. There is no nice way to put this: You are a liar. You are lying about this just like you lied about Israel attacking a girl's school in Iran. (Technically, you were probably bullshitting not lying.)
It's of great importance for assessing your credibility. You claimed that it was Israel without any supporting evidence, i.e. you lied. (Technically, you were probably bullshitting.) Just like you are lying/bullshitting about Israel using Gazans as human shields and stealing land.
Please show me where I did this. Please QUOTE me. Failing that, please admit I said no such thing and apologize.
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I notice that people on both sides of the conflict are very selective about which 90 year old atrocities are a causus belli excusing violent action today.
FWIW I did not bring up the ethnic cleansing of Jews in the 1930s and 40s as a casus belli. Rather, I brought it up to point out how silly it is to claim that Israel is, in essence, stealing land.
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Their "horrible atrocities that justify our actions today" versus our "totally justified actions as a result of their historical attrocities"
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