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PaperclipPerfector  7d ago (text post)   24795 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 30, 2026

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Poland doesn't have burning seathing contempt for the US, or vice versa, get real. What they do have is Russia next door to them.

Come on. Poland gave 4.5 billion euros in military aid to Ukraine, a country which is fighting a very bloody war with Russia. Obviously Poland believes that NATO will protect them from Russian aggression (which is a reasonable assumption when Trump is not president).

That’s partially it though, Europe gave a lot of scarce military equipment to Ukraine and now their belts have to be a lot tighter.

Poland's donation of military aid there has (presumably) also degraded Russian military effectiveness without casualties on their part. Which is better for Poland, ATGMs in warehouses, or destroyed Russian tanks (in Ukraine)? Certainly the latter is better than Russian and Ukrainian tanks attacking them like Czechoslovakian troops in 1939.

They also sent tons of hardware (something to the tune of 400 tanks, IIRC), but the logic wasn't just "NATO will protect us" (which, again IIRC, is a gamble - isn't the official battle plan to start giving proper resistance at the Oder river?), it was also (if not more) "if they steamroll Ukraine, we'll be in a much worse position to defend ourselves".

Either way, none of it says anything about "seathing contempt".

This. The only potential enemy European tanks are useful for defending ourselves against is Russia, and if we are going to defend ourselves against Russia we should be doing it in Ukraine and not in Poland.

Poland doesn't have burning seething contempt for the US

Sadly not yet and far to go, but attitudes are shifting. I said previously, the neediness, the entitlement, the lies, even heavily insulated normies notice and shift. I sound people on this often (interesting, plus to agitate), I think it goes well beyond "orange man bad". In the mainstream (TV etc) "discourse", that US is a reliable ally and a positive force in the world used to be near axiomatic, not anymore.

As for contempt in the US for Poland, among the elite, I'm positive it is there. They see us as an unserious country with weak elite core, and fair enough.

MAGA respects Poland and their accomplishments and views them as a real country with ho girls.

I've been planning a trip to poland and sounding out my contacts (Techvisa pre-expats); the pole prols like maga for race reasons but dislike maga on account of rolling over for russia, the poles with juice (the conservative ones) consider maga to be degenerate cowardly morons; with their complaints coming in that order.

I guess polish cons are a lot more trad than I thought, they take their Catholicism seriously; or at least pretend to.

In the mainstream (TV etc) "discourse", that US is a reliable ally and a positive force in the world used to be near axiomatic, not anymore.

I suppose if we ignore not just Trump I, but also Bush II, Reagan, Nixon, and of course Eisenhower over the whole Suez Crisis.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but praise for the US was never axiomatic even from Europe, let alone other places.

I suppose if we ignore not just Trump I, but also Bush II, Reagan, Nixon, and of course Eisenhower over the whole Suez Crisis.

Hmm, I sense a commonality between those Presidents.

As for contempt in the US for Poland, among the elite, I'm positive it is there. They see us as an unserious country with weak elite core, and fair enough.

Doesn't Poland often get honorable mention as the non-freeloading part of NATO from the American elites? And what's with this "unserious country" nonsense? No one on the western side talks about it like that anymore, you gotta ditch that inferiority complex of yours.

honorable mention as the non-freeloading part of NATO from the American elites?

Head pats in public for a retarded puppy and rightoids projecting their fantasies onto "based Poland". We carry water for the US, we buy US weaponry, we can and are used to sabotage Europe, ask for very little in return. And since "US is a reliable ally and a positive force in the world used to be near axiomatic" and our elite quality is laughable, praise was and still is effective and sought after.

US elite consider us suckers, taking ideology/propaganda seriously, satisfied with an army unfit for operation outside US framework, weak internally, transparent.

you gotta ditch that inferiority complex of yours

I resent this, you don't know what you're talking about. There is not a shred of inferiority complex in a typical Pole; he is cynical, a pessimist. Appearance of strength is enough for outsiders, not for people invested in the outcome.

A country in our position should have domestic arms industry fit for modern war, own satellite recon, civil defence and reserve at Finnish level, elite loyal and capable of running a nuclear program without someone instantly running to snitch to the US. We don't have any of this due to a combination of skill issues, bad historical luck, and meddling.

non-freeloading part of NATO

I reject this framing, by the way. In fact, with the inability to keep trade routes open under even slight pressure, and the benefits of European integration into the NATO, the US is the freeloading party.

US elite consider us suckers, taking ideology/propaganda seriously, satisfied with an army unfit for operation outside US framework, weak internally, transparent.

If you spent a lot of time mingling with the American elites, and that's your honest assessment of them, fair enough. I can't say I've talked to them all that much.

I resent this, you don't know what you're talking about. There is not a shred of inferiority complex in a typical Pole; he is cynical, a pessimist. Appearance of strength is enough for outsiders, not for people invested in the outcome.

Oh, I know quite a fair bit, actually. #NotAll, but if you've ran into someone who not only complains about his country, but goes out of their way to convince you that his country is shit, and does so over your explicit expression of genuine admiration, you're almost certainly talking to a Pole. Cynicism and pessimism? There's a difference between lack of trust and expecting the worst, and self-abasing yourself in front of others with expressions like "retarded puppy" and "unserious country". Yes, appearance of strength is for outsiders. In private there's nothing wrong with a sergeant screaming profanities at his men to whip them into shape, but there are also things that are not for outsiders' eyes, and performative self-flagellation is one of them. Even with all this, I could write it down to peculiarities of culture, and go with your explanation, if it wasn't for the tendency to put some foreign country on a pedestal, and chase them down every retarded suicidal trend they come up with. Which one it's going to be depends on one's political views, but if it's not the US, it's usually Germany or the nordics.

Maybe there's a better term for this than "inferiority complex" but it sure as hell is more than just cynicism and pessimism.

A country in our position should have domestic arms industry fit for modern war, own satellite recon, civil defence and reserve at Finnish level, elite loyal and capable of running a nuclear program without someone instantly running to snitch to the US. We don't have any of this due to a combination of skill issues, bad historical luck, and meddling.

You've pulled yourself out of a literal gutter within a single generation. It's good you don't want to rest on your laurels, but none of the countries around you are particularly serious by this standard.

I reject this framing, by the way. In fact, with the inability to keep trade routes open under even slight pressure, and the benefits of European integration into the NATO, the US is the freeloading party.

I've seen 3 views put forward about the US' relationship with Europe:

  1. Americans are the good guys, ensuring the world's stability purely out of the kindness of their hearts, and doing so despite the ingratitude of the parties they're helping

  2. America and Europe voluntarily entered into an agreement, where Europe gets security in return for strategic deference.

  3. The post-WW2 order is an American scheme to keep Europe down and ensure it will never be able to rival. or even be independent of, the US.

My personal view falls somewhere between #2 and #3. I've never heard of your view #4 "America is getting so much out of """European integration into NATO""" that they're the freeloaders, actually", and it feels about as naive as view #1 to me.

If you spent a lot of time mingling with the American elites, and that's your honest assessment of them, fair enough. I can't say I've talked to them all that much.

Of course this is a pleb assessment from the outside.

self-abasing yourself in front of others with expressions like "retarded puppy" and "unserious country"

Did not cross my mind that this is self-abasement or performative self-flagellation. "Retarded puppy" just describes what I think those people think of us. "Unserious country" is just a blunt assessment of our state relative to what our aspirations must be. Not like discussing such things in the open is abnormal, I don't have any insight that would warrant being secretive.

With appearances and outsiders, I did not mean putting up a front, but what one is satisfied with. For a neutral/sympathetic outsider, the appearance is enough, no consequences if it is hollow. Praise and admiration on questionable ground is worth little, not surprising people would push back on it; consider that it almost is an insult, "this bare minimum is impressive for the likes of you". You can cram this into "inferiority complex", but on group level, you'd be wrong, it's pride, revulsion to condescension.

You've pulled yourself out of a literal gutter within a single generation.

We were not in the gutter, and the rebound was easy for a European country in our position, switching away from a clown economic system, with the tailwinds of the period.

if it wasn't for the tendency to put some foreign country on a pedestal, and chase them down every retarded suicidal trend they come up with

Pedestal for the US, due to circumstances. Beyond that just standard dynamics of a peripheral country on the backfoot. Don't see us chasing down suicidal trends.

My personal view falls somewhere between #2 and #3. I've never heard of your view #4 "America is getting so much out of """European integration into NATO""" that they're the freeloaders, actually", and it feels about as naive as view #1 to me.

To the extent you presented this as a spectrum, shouldn't #4 sit between #2 and #3? #3 is aggression, freeloading implies just opportunism. Anyway, it's less naive than the view that there are freeloading NATO members because of military spending not being at whatever % of GDP.

I guess it depends wildly on who you mean by "elite", but I don't find this accurate at all. The way I see it, the broad left considers us a less bad version of Hungary for failing to bend the knee on various progressive causes. the right, honestly, hard to say, maybe the do see us as rubes, but I don't think it's as calculated as you present it, we're merely a weak, still unestablished player for them.

There is not a shred of inferiority complex in a typical Pole; he is cynical, a pessimist.

Guess I am imagining it then, when every single goddamn time, multiple times a week, when something bad happens, somebody from my friends or family is compelled to chime in saying that what occurred is so "typically Polish". When I hear people wishing that our country wouldn't exist, that the Germans should just annex us and bring civilization here. Etc. etc. The complex of Z A G R A N I C O may be less pronounced than it was 20 years ago, but it's alive and kicking.

I guess it depends wildly on who you mean by "elite"

Something more exclusive, definitely. For broad left/right, I don't really disagree with your view.

somebody from my friends or family is compelled to chime in saying that what occurred is so "typically Polish". When I hear people wishing that our country wouldn't exist, that the Germans should just annex us and bring civilization here

I'm surprised you find it so prevalent, I don't really encounter people that seriously hold (meaning, would make and stand by such a statement on pushback) this mindset irl, rarely someone that would say it without it being a joke.

Sorting, I suppose? My groups skew male, too.

You may well be right, but FWIW there is a lot of genuine respect for Poles from other countries that maybe wasn’t there before. Not just militarily, they’re often seen as very serious, very capable people who’ve known real hardship and don’t get fooled by trivial griping. One of the best engineers I knew was Polish.

I don't doubt this, I'm thinking here of Poland, the nation/country.

When I hear "unserious country" nowadays it's usually someone on the right talking about the U.K. or Germany.

I really wonder how many Poles still have anxiety over Russia. The very few of them that I’ve met seem to like Russia. Historically Russia and Iran never liked each other either. In 2026, they’re fairly close allies.

Flatly stating you like Russia would produce a mildly negative reaction in almost any company, but using a slur for Russians, describing them in strong negative terms, would not. Russian are 4 years into a horribly destructive, clearly pointless war, so reactions are biased, and anxiety about Russia as an aggressor is the default for near everyone.

Historically Russia and Iran never liked each other either

Not exactly comparable, Iran is on the periphery of Russia, Poland is in the way. But the divide is fixable, mistrust is permanent but hatred not, a change in Russian leadership, a decade, push to focus on similarities. And in certain configurations, inflexibly standing in the way of Eurasian integration will be just dangerous in practical terms, and will force us.

This Pew research report suggests almost everybody in Poland has a negative view of Russia.

The chart at the top shows 70% very unfavorable and 20% somewhat unfavorable (90% total). The 79% is the average across the countries surveyed.

21% is less than a quarter...?

I think if you were to look at opinion polls, or their justifications for increasing cooperation with NATO, you would see a lot more anxiety towards Russia.

It might not be recognisable as the American/Western European form of anti-Russia sentiment as they also have some friction with Ukraine and they're still friendly with Hungary, but Kaliningrad and Belarus are right beside them.

Obviously I can't speak for the "Polish street," but their government has been unrelentingly hawkish towards Russia for over a decade.

What’s the influence of political Catholicism like there? At least that’s where I’ve heard of support for Russia. The Russian ‘Civilizational State’ paradigm of foreign policy seems to attract a lot of former enemies they had in Europe that persisted since the Soviet times.

Political Catholicism is occasionally instrumentally cooperative with Russia, just like other movements outside the western mainstream(Russia's funding/assistance in western countries is an enormous grab bag including everything from greenies to texas nationalists and everything in between), but it's not ideologically pro-Russia.

Russian nationalism is tied to politicised Orthodoxy, and therefore anti-Catholic.

Turning American politicised evangelicalism from a force which was primarily anti-Catholic to a force which is primarily anti-Left was a multi-decade project.

American politicised evangelicalism has never been primarily anti-Catholic. It's too new; American politicised protestantism was at one time primarily anti-Catholic, but that was in the nineteenth century and they were not evangelical.

Evangelical is a specific thing, it doesn't just mean 'politically active protestant'.

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