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PaperclipPerfector  4d ago (text post)   18313 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 30, 2026

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I have never watched Mad Men, but there is this meme where two men are in an elevator. The first says, "I feel bad for you." The second says, "I don't think about you at all."

If you had two stickers, one labeled US and one UK/EU, which sticker would you put on the first man, and which on the second?

On the first thought, maybe you'd put the US sticker on the guy who says, "I don't think about you at all." Because after all, the US is a superpower that just Leeroy Jenkins its way through foreign affairs and seems to have grown increasingly disinterested in what Europeans have to say about it.

When people are polled, however, something interesting emerges: https://ecfr.eu/publication/how-trump-is-making-china-great-again-and-what-it-means-for-europe/

Here is one poll question: Generally speaking, thinking about the US, which of the following best reflects your view on what they are to your country?

In Switzerland, 21% of people view the US as "An adversary—with which we are in conflict" compared to just 8% as, "An ally—that shares our interests and values." They seem to be on the extreme for Europe. The UK seems to be on the other (European) extreme: 25% view the US as "An ally—that shares our interests and values." The EU10 is in the middle at 16% seeing the US as an ally.

The reverse was polled to Americans: Generally speaking, thinking about the EU which of the following best reflects your view on who they are to your country?

The total for the US was 40% who would agree that the EU is "An ally—that shares our interests and values." This percentage is higher in Harris voters than Trump voters, but importantly, Trump voters were still at 30%, which is higher than even the UK's rosy view of the US compared to the rest of Europe.

Another interesting question is: Which of the following best reflects your view on the EU's global standing?

46% of Americans said, "The EU is a power that can deal on equal terms with global powers, such as the US or China." Comparatively, EU10, Switzerland, and UK were all in the 30s of percentage points. There seems to be a gap between how important/capable the US thinks Europe is compared to Europe's self-perceptions.

The pattern emerges that people in the US are more likely to think that the people of Europe are both capable and share our interests and values, while the people of Europe disagree. I don't know who is right, but I think it is important for both groups to be aware of this emerging dynamic.

If you had two stickers, one labeled US and one UK/EU, which sticker would you put on the first man, and which on the second?

The actual answer is that the meme is not applicable. People in the US and EU think about the other plenty. If you put a gun to my head and made me choose, I'd say the US gets to be Don Draper in this scenario, if only because a lot of Americans seem only tenuously aware that people in other countries exist and have lives (Tanner Greer dubbed this type of thinking 'big country autism'). But the reality is that it's extremely easy to elicit thoughts on Europe from Americans, whether that is praise or contempt or seething.

The pattern emerges that people in the US are more likely to think that the people of Europe are both capable and share our interests and values, while the people of Europe disagree.

The reason I don't think the Mad Men Meme applies is that I think this difference in attitude is not due to an asymmetry in concern (i.e. Americans caring more about Europe than vice versa) but due to the power asymmetry. As it stands now, while the US is allied with most of Europe, European nations are very much junior partners. That means getting jerked around by the interests and the whims of the US. I am fairly confident that if circumstances were reversed - if the military and economic security of the US turned on the impulses of European voters, or we were staring down the barrel of an economic crisis because European leaders did something retarded - Americans would be at least as cool on Europe as Europeans appear to be on us right now. Similarly, I think the greater American optimism about the EU's power is explained by this power asymmetry. What Americans perceive is that the US doesn't always get what it wants from the EU. What EUers perceive is that whenever there's an international crisis, they're stuck monitoring the situation while the US does whatever it wants.

Actually, the EU is Don Draper, feigning aloof superiority while privately riddled by anxiety.

I am fairly confident that if circumstances were reversed - if the military and economic security of the US turned on the impulses of European voters, or we were staring down the barrel of an economic crisis because European leaders did something retarded - Americans would be at least as cool on Europe as Europeans appear to be on us right now.

Americans would probably be less anti-European than Europeans currently are anti-American. This is because there's an element of snobbish contempt and reflexive ego preservation in the European attitude that really doesn't exist in American attitudes towards Europeans outside of extremely online spaces.

Normie Americans think Europe is Notre Dame and Big Ben and Oktoberfest and Italian cafes, oh and don't they have some issues with terrorism? Still, beautiful place, would love to visit one day.

Normie Europeans think America is a country full of backward nouveau riche troglodytes who make houses out of wood and probably plastic and styrofoam and drive big stupid cars and kill each other with guns and eat nothing but McDonalds, Velveeta, and probably plastic and styrofoam and call it "cuisine," and worst of all they have the gall, the absolute gall to think they are equal or even superior(!!) to us and that they can tell us what to do! They won't say all that directly to your face, but 2 out of 3 Euros are unable to contain their seething contempt and will eventually have to get in a "witty" (passive-aggressive) dig about guns/racism/big cars/food/etc apropos of nothing in an otherwise friendly conversation.

Early Americans thought their political system was superior to European monarchy, but they copied European styles and imported European fine goods and high culture. Europeans have never had anything but contempt for American culture, and this contempt and wounded ego greatly amplifies their dislike for America.

Now, there's a lot of contempt for america in europe, but from what I've seen there's also admiration, especially among the working class. My wife and I went to New York last december and my Spanish in-laws were quite jealous. They wanted as keepsakes american one dollar bills and statue of liberty merch. I think that's because despite all they hear on the news, the US remains a place they admire. Maybe for the people who can afford to visit it, it has less cachet, but from other europeans I know that have visited, I still see that they, on some level, admire it. The USA they hate is a construct created by the news media (both theirs, and the US blue tribe media).

Actually, the EU is Don Draper, feigning aloof superiority while privately riddled by anxiety.

Someone very pithily put it on X “Europeans looks down on us from below.”

Tbf I could also go back and say that the US is Don Draper, engaging in showy posturing to hide feelings of inferiority.

It's turtles insecurity all the way down!

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