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For what it's worth, I think the HBD folks are usually obsessed with IQ in an unhealthy way. Black culture, despite the bad parts, has some really lovely vitality and openess and warmth that a lot of more standardized western culture lacks. I for one think HBD, while true in some narrow sense, doesn't even come close to justifying bringing back slavery.
Huh? Like what? Rap? Scam culture? So confused by this comment.
Men clap each other on the back and are extremely warm with each other. Black people gas each other up all the time. There's a physical vitality and liveliness that I don't see celebrated as much in white culture. A focus on athleticism, and physical strength.
There's also a general rootedness, less of a willingness to just pick up and leave your entire family on a whim for a better social scene or career prospects. All of these are good things, imo.
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Black culture is more warm in the sense that people are gregarious, speak louder, touch each other more, and have more large raucous social gatherings than certain types of borderline autistic northern Europeans or WASPs who stand six feet apart, never talk over each other, and eat meals of boiled potatoes and beef in respectful silence. Of course, not all western cultures are like the latter, and southern whites in the US are noticeably more similar to their black neighbors in behavior, food, accent, etc. compared to northeners.
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Hey that's not fair, many of us are also obsessed with violent crime rates. That, and how many more decades of complete abject miserable failure on that front it's supposed to take before "anti-racist" views on the subject are considered refuted.
I'm definitely in favor of more hardcore sentencing for violent criminals, at least repeat offenders. Three strike laws for instance, when it comes to violent crime, are totally fine for me. Definitely not woke myself in other areas.
That doesn't mean that I think black people are inferior, subhuman, or deserve to be treated overall with less dignity than white people.
Good for you?
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The thing is, reducing violent crime is not that hard. I mean not brining it to zero, but bringing it to a place where it's not an everyday concern to a layperson. It has been done, and it has been undone, and in both cases it not a function of genetics or races or any of that stuff. It's just the question of resources and consistent unyielding enforcement. You just need to catch the criminals and put them in jail and keep them there. You don't need to analyze their genes or skin color to do that. It is true that people who un-do it, very much look at genes and skin color as a justification of why they are not doing the right thing, but there's no reason to uphold their framework and only change the signs. It is possible to toss the whole broken framework altogether and replace it with one that looks at the actual behavior and not genetics. You don't put people in jail for their genes, just for their crimes. If you do that, you don't need any HBD. I mean, you can still do a PhD in theorizing about what causes people to do crime, but practically it doesn't matter - if the criminals are in jail, nobody cares about their biology. Everybody cares that they are in jail.
Until five seconds later when someone accuses you of being the Grand Wizard because the people you locked up were disproportionately black. C'mon now, I know you didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
You are saying "I must be racist because other people are racist, so I need to be exactly like them, but with different sign". No, you don't. You missed all of my point exactly. The people that would accuse you would be racists, but you do not need to build your own racism to defend against them. I just showed you the correct way, and you treat it as some kind of weird nonsense. That's the problem.
Oh okay, when a bunch of wokies paint me as Hitler and try to terminate my career because I colorblindly arrested six times as many black guys, or whatever, I'll just pass them a copy of your post. It'll fill their hearts with a sense of civic virtue and society as a whole will decide that actually it doesn't really want the answer to that question after all. Then, finally, at last, no one will "need" the actual answer and you can quit hearing about HBD.
I'm not sure how this even computes. OK, I understand you are pissed off at the wokes. I am too. They are totally wrong. But then something bizarre happens. I am saying "yes, we should ignore the wokes and arrest as many black guys as commit crimes. And as many white guys as commit crimes". But you say - no, that's not gonna work. You see, the wokes are in the way, so the only way to solve it is to build this theory that treats black people as low quality humans, and somehow introduce it it into all the society, and obsess about wide-populational statistical differences. And when I am asking - well, how exactly that is going to help with arresting the actual criminals and keeping them in jail? You tell me - but the wokes! The wokes!!! The wokes!!! Yes, I know, the wokes. The wokes are bad. The wokes are racist. They are making everything worse. I got that. The part I didn't get is how exactly HBD is helping you here? I am saying the practical way to solve the crime is to put criminals in jail. You are saying it's impossible because the wokes would interfere and thus we need HBD. But how HBD is helping you? Sure, you could start despising black people for their supposed statistical inferiority... and? How that solves anything?
The wokes get their justification by claiming that disparate sentencing alone proves that law enforcement is racist and illegitimate, and having wide public agreement for this because HBD arguments are taboo and can't be uttered in polite society. If HBD became common knowledge, this would stop working.
Yes, I know, they lie. And it's easy to prove - you just need to establish a principle of "do crime - go to jail" - which is obviously blind to the race, and enforce it diligently without regard to the race. Once you start talking about race, proving that you operate in racially blind framework becomes much harder.
No, not because of this. You don't need to sell the public that 50 millions of US citizens are subhuman (not sure what you'd do with Ashkenazi Jews btw - does every Jew automatically gets PhD at birth? I mean, if you do the negative side, you have to do the positive side too... if you advocated for somehow suppressing supposedly low-IQ populations, you necessarily would have to advocate to promote high-IQ populations... not sure how that's supposed to work?) to sell them the idea of punishment following the crime. I know a lot of people that agree to the latter while not agreeing to the former, and I do not think HBD is the only way to combat racism. Especially given that it's the same racism, only with variables substituted. I mean "we are both racists, but we think we are actually the good guys, and so do they, but you can trust us!" does not sound as a particularly overwhelming argument.
How? The wokes would just switch from "you can't jail criminals because it's racist" to "you can't jail criminals because life's hard for them anyway, so you can not ask them to not be criminals, it's just cruel". In fact, many already do it anyway right now - the white progressive left is racist as hell, and many of them internalize a version of HBD very deeply, they just make different political conclusions from it. Attacking them on essentially agreeing with them is not going to be very effective. If you want to win over them, you need to reject their racist framework.
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And I'm saying you'll never get to just do that, and that the suggestion is so detached from reality that I wonder why you would bother making it.
Like what, for the rest of eternity whenever someone brings up disparate outcomes in whatever as evidence that the system is racist, we're supposed to keep the actual reason secret? Because what, it makes some people sad? Just stand around and hope that everyone calling the system racist and using that as a political lever just loses power and goes away?
No thanks.
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What is the HBD argument that would defeat "the cops are racist to black men so they police and sentence them harsher in the same situations"?
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HBD comes in when you do that, then look at the people in the jails and notice they don't look like the general population.
Crime does not look like the general population, because criminals aren't general population. That's why we lock them up in jails. If everybody would be equally likely to commit crime, locking people up would be useless. But it's actually very useful, because only a very small number of people, compared to the whole population, does crime, and even smaller one - does crime repeatedly. But again, you do not need to have scientific explanation why every person does crime to lock up criminals, no more than you need to study quantum gravity theory to build a bridge that does not collapse. The practical way is easy.
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From the perspective of some, doing anything other than burying one’s head in the sand with regard to racial IQ differences is ipso facto unhealthy.
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
High violent crime rates, lifetime net tax consumption, and racial narcissism and outgroup hostility are quite the vibrant way to express lovely vitality and openess and warmth.
Indeed, many wrongthinkers would agree that US slavery and its outcomes were a mistake—albeit for reasons different from progressives—and to not make the same mistake twice.
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