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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   1977 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for May 8, 2026

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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Someone rec me a good TL of the Illiad/Odyssey.

It's been a long time since I've read/studied it and I'm out of date. I at least dimly remember a lot of pushback from some better-read people than I about the Emily Wilson TL of the Odyssey.

I kind of want to read a passable translation again for posterity's sake due to some discussion and dissatisfaction I've noticed with the latest trailer for Nolan's attempt at Homer. Not in prose if possible, ideally the power and scope of the oral poetry should be preserved. Despite the power of the "Sing, O Muse, of the Rage of Achilles" line, many of the recommended or popular TLs I've seen have far shittier renditions of that verse.

I was taught through the Alexander Pope Translation and it's the first translation of the Iliad I'd ever read.

https://gutenberg.org/files/6130/6130-h/6130-h.htm#chap01

To me it's very enjoyable. Though technically not as accurate to the original as some others, in English, it's one of the best translations out there.

Piggyback-ing off this, has anyone read T. E. Lawrence's translation? I've only seen the meme about how shit Emily Wilson is that had the opening, but it seemed much more flowery/prose based. I have a copy of the Samuel Butler translation in a set of "Great Books of the Western World" but didn't love his Illiad.

I just read Ho epi Troian Polemos. It's an easy-greek reader that tells the story of the Illiad using only ~400 greek words. It's designed for someone who has had about 1 semester of greek studies.

If you're actually interested enough in the books to re-read a translation, then I recommend starting to just go to the original language!

Robert Fitzgerald's 1961 translation is the standard modern version of The Odyssey (or, at least, the one all the school textbooks seem to have):

Sing in me, Muse, and through me tell the story
of that man skilled in all ways of contending,
the wanderer, harried for years on end,
after he plundered the stronghold
on the proud height of Troy.

He saw the townlands
and learned the minds of many distant men,
and weathered many bitter nights and days
in his deep heart at sea, while he fought only
to save his life, to bring his shipmates home.
But not by will nor valor could he save them,
for their own recklessness destroyed them all—
children and fools, they killed and feasted on
the cattle of Lord Hêlios, the Sun,
and he who moves all day through heaven
took from their eyes the dawn of their return.

Of these adventures, Muse, daughter of Zeus,
tell us in our time, lift the great song again.

But if you're looking for something a little more trad, Alexander Pope's 1725 translation is excellent:

The man for wisdom’s various arts renown’d,
Long exercised in woes, O Muse! resound;
Who, when his arms had wrought the destined fall
Of sacred Troy, and razed her heaven-built wall,
Wandering from clime to clime, observant stray’d,
Their manners noted, and their states survey’d,
On stormy seas unnumber’d toils he bore,
Safe with his friends to gain his natal shore:
Vain toils! their impious folly dared to prey
On herds devoted to the god of day;
The god vindictive doom’d them never more
(Ah, men unbless’d!) to touch that natal shore.
Oh, snatch some portion of these acts from fate,
Celestial Muse! and to our world relate.

And whatever you do, don't read Samuel Butler's 1900's translation (which is, inexplicably, the most popular version on Project Gutenberg):

Tell me, O Muse, of that ingenious hero who travelled far and wide after he had sacked the famous town of Troy. Many cities did he visit, and many were the nations with whose manners and customs he was acquainted; moreover he suffered much by sea while trying to save his own life and bring his men safely home; but do what he might he could not save his men, for they perished through their own sheer folly in eating the cattle of the Sun-god Hyperion; so the god prevented them from ever reaching home. Tell me, too, about all these things, oh daughter of Jove, from whatsoever source you may know them.

Alexander Pope's 1725 translation is excellent

"It is a pretty poem, Mr Pope, but you must not call it Homer."

I have an irrational hatred for poetic elision. People who can follow the meter only by resorting to the methods of Procrustes shouldn't write poetry.

Is it only for English, or does transforming "желание" into "желанье" disqualify a poet in your eyes as well?

It's only for English, all these apostrophes turn me into a slobbering dyslexic. And и/ь alternation is not just poetic.

Not a translation, so perhaps not what you're looking for, but I enjoyed the War Nerd's version.

Lattimore aims to serve as a line-for-line, verbatim translation of the Ancient Greek into English, so if you're looking to replicate the experience of reading it in its language of origin without actually doing so, it's a safe bet. Fitzgerald uses a more vivid and contemporary prose without being highly verbose, while also not sacrificing accuracy.

I have NEVER seen translation abbreviated as TL, and I was very confused until you mentioned Emily Wilson.

Fagles is the one that comes most commonly recommended as accurate and well done. I enjoyed Wilson's Odyssey, but I see where people didn't like it, I think Wilson is an interesting pairing with the War Nerd Iliad.

My favorite translation though, is Pope's

Achilles’ wrath, to Greece the direful spring
Of woes unnumber’d, heavenly goddess, sing!
That wrath which hurl’d to Pluto’s gloomy reign
The souls of mighty chiefs untimely slain;
Whose limbs unburied on the naked shore,
Devouring dogs and hungry vultures tore.[41]
Since great Achilles and Atrides strove,
Such was the sovereign doom, and such the will of Jove![42

Seconding Fagles. I found those to be enjoyable and comprehensible without feeling like I was reading Homer for Dummies (which they might be, for all I know, since I haven't read other translations).

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