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Does anyone like or collect watches? I never had much interest in them as an adult, especially after the cell phone explosion around my teens/20s made them mostly obsolete, but as I got older, I realized that it's an important piece of jewelry for the typical formal male outfit, and so I started wearing them again a couple years ago. First super-cheap quartz watches from Amazon, which can usually be found for $10-$20, then I found better automatic ones from AliExpress for $30-$300*.
Then, likely through motivated reasoning, it occurred to me that if AI takes off and everyday goods become crazy cheap, positional luxury goods that are expensive primarily because of the brand name could appreciate in value, so I actually bought a handful of automatics from well known brands for $500-$3,000, in the hopes that they'll appreciate in the next few years (also I liked the designs). If you know anything about watch prices, you know that that's not enough to get to the actual luxury luxury tier, so last weekend, I decided to step into a local Rolex boutique on a whim, and it was quite a bit of a culture shock.
I had to wait in line for 20 minutes just to get in, and then once I was in, a single salesman was assigned to me, ready to show me anything I wanted. He had me sit in a lounging area and offered me coffee while he collected the watches I wanted to check out. No price labels on any of them (I'm guessing it's a "if you have to ask how much it costs, then you can't afford it" situation - I had a rough idea that the cheapest would cost around $10K and was prepared to spend on that order of magnitude, but, if you know more about Rolex than I did at the time, you already know that I didn't spend that on that day). I was most interested in a black Submariner with date (basically the prototypical dive watch that every other manufacturer apes with their own dive watches), and the salesman told me that there was a 1-2-year wait list. By which time, given the progress of AI, I have no idea if I'll be alive, have a job, have enough money to afford one, or if Rolex will even be around. But I decided to give him my information and received an email. He recommended that I email him a reminder every month or two, which struck me as odd, given that queue technology is millennia old.
Doing some more research, it seemed that Rolex liked to make customers play games and jump through hoops to get them, which I suppose makes sense when you're the top name in the luxury [anything] space, since the exclusivity is part of the appeal of the brand, and there's no alternative that people can go to. But as a fairly non-/anti-social autist (not literally, but, you know), I kinda resented the notion that I had to socially butter up the salesman to be deserving of one of their products. So I'm not sure how much, if any, I'll follow up. In terms of investment potential, there doesn't seem to be any brand as low-risk as Rolex, but maybe I should just invest that money intelligently in the market instead. In the secondary market, like most fairly free markets, the appreciation is already priced in, so it's not really a great opportunity for making money. It'd also be nice to have a Rolex I could give to my future kid(s) to sell when they're middle-aged or senior citizens, since properly-taken-care-of vintage Rolexes seem to be valued highly, so giving them a pretty insurance policy that both I and they could get use out of in the meanwhile seems nice.
Anyway, now I'm in the hold phase of buy-and-hold and don't plan on buying any more expensive ones in the foreseeable future. We'll see if I end up with a bunch of worthless pretty bracelets or a nice profit soon enough, I suppose.
* Two brands popular on AliExpress (and present on Amazon) that tickled me were BiDen and Berny, for what should be obvious reasons. BiDen is cheap ($30-$100) and fairly mediocre in my experience, with a handful of automatic models that generally look pretty ugly, but I bought some just for the brand name. Berny (they claim to be named after Bern, Switzerland, where a Chinese watchmaker went to study watchmaking) is pricier ($90-$300) and has a large variety, including, like most Chinese manufacturers, lots of knockoffs of more expensive/famous brands. The quality of the ones I've bought seem good. I don't know if there's a Trump brand watch company, but I see a business opportunity here for some Chinese manufacturer.
I'm surprised to see this entire discussion of watches pass by without a single reference to smartwatches. I understand that you're significantly influenced by the idea of a watch as an investment piece... But i feel like it's are least worth mentioning that we do still have a class of watches designed primarily for functionality. My Garmin Fenix coming in handy literally every day. And while the design perhaps isn't up to rolex standards, a smartwatch is still its own type of social signal. Given how often I see them worn by high-earning men in IT leadership, I associate them with what we in the business call "technical leadership." I.E., the management-class people who's eyes don't glaze over when you start to explain some esoteric about how an SQL variant works.
The main downside of course is the depreciation... But I really don't think watches are the best anti-AI hedge in any case. Watches buy you social status and (maybe) utility. They're not going to outperform land with mineral rights or magic the gathering cards as items of exchange with the post AI nobility.
I've heard it said that the most popular watch in the world is the Apple Watch, and it seems believable. So perhaps, in the future, when people say "watch," they'll think of mini-tablets with a strap for the wrist, like how when people say "phone" now, we think of a mini-tablet with a cell connection, not something attached to the wall with a keypad or a rotary thingy. But if they're really that popular, I feel like it's hard for them to signal anything. I think Apple Watches are square or rectangular, versus many other Android smartwatches having round faces, so perhaps having a round-faced smartwatch will signal being a tech leader-type. Though, since they're not that expensive, it could just signal being a nerdy Android-type in general.
I personally don't like smartwatches, primarily because I personally don't get value out of having notifications available on my watch rather than my phone. And also because they require much more maintenance than dumbwatches - you need to charge them multiple times a week, if not every day. A trivial inconvenience, but an inconvenience nonetheless. That said, I did buy a cheap $10 smartwatch from AliExpress, because smartwatches offer 2 obvious huge advantages in terms of use and looks: since they sync with a phone, they always have very accurate time, and since their dials are actually fully functional LCD screens, they have near-infinite flexibility in terms of the look. Unfortunately, the cheap one I bought doesn't actually offer that near-infinite flexibility and only allows you to download from some set of dial designs they have, which number in the hundreds, but that's basically zero compared to the possibility space. I use it primarily for just setting the time of my other watches when I don't want to take my phone out of my pocket and open the clock app.
Phone brand smartwatches (apple, samsung) tell you whatever the phone brand tells you about that person in your cultural context. Usually they're a pretty straightforward status signal, but in my experience more for young women than for anyone else. (Apple cachet remains...)
As for garmins, they differentiate from other smartphones by having much longer lasting batteries (my fenix solar lasts 10 days under normal conditions and closer to 14 when I'm out and about a lot) and being notably more feature rich. No individual feature is killer, but in aggregate I end up using a whole lot of them. The sleep tracking + heartbeat sensing isn't unique among smartphones but having them has improved my self discipline. The heartbeat tracking in particular came in clutch when I had altitude sickness in colorado-- helping me notice my tachycardia and then validate that wim hof breathing actually helped me drop my heartrate from 100 to 80. The Maps+GPS+Compass works better than google maps on my phone for hiking and it saves on phone battery. (Plus it's fun to track walks/hikes) The weather+sunset/sunrise display is something I could do with a phone app but it's convenient to just have it on my wrist, especially when I'm driving. I definitely do appreciate not having to pull my phone out for notifications. There's an app for electric unicycles that can show my speed and battery readout on my watch, which I used fairly often before I got an upgraded wheel with a built-in display. Also I use the flashlight literally every day. Something about it being wrist-mounter makes it so much more more useful than a phone flashlight.
I almost feel bad for shilling them this much but my buddy works for them and got me mine for the employee discount so I feel like they've more than earned a few paragraphs of shilling.
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I usually buy some with clean design from Temu/Aliexpress that cost 30$, have really clean design and have lots of their movement exposed. A good skeleton watch is mesmerizing.
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I've got a couple of watches I really like that serve as unique conversation pieces, but I have neither the funds nor the inclination to be a serious collector, and will almost certainly never own a Rolex.
I have an Original Grain wooden watch made from old whiskey barrels, and a completely impractical watch from Mr. Jones Watches that I can barely read but looks absolutely gorgeous.
I had never heard of such a thing, and they're gorgeous. I have some friends who got me into enjoying whiskey as my hard liquor of choice in my 20s, and these would probably make some solid gifts for them.
It's my favorite because it's so unique, while not costing anything more than some random off-brand steel watch you'd pick up at Macys.
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I have two 800$ ish Seiko’s I enjoy.
One gold and one silver.
I like wearing them - it makes me feel fancy.
I did get them for 52% off when I worked at Dillard’s during our 4X annual double discount days.
Would like a nice, black Movado as well one day.
A grand Seiko maybe for retirement.
It’ll look good with my long sleeve Hawaiian shirts.
This is a brand I've heard almost nothing but good things about, but I didn't really check them out much. As of tomorrow, I'm going to have two Seikos that I hope to enjoy, one of each of the Seiko 5 Pepsi collaboration watches. Most watch collectors are familiar with nicknames for various Rolex GMT/Submariner models, such as "Hulk" for an all-green one or "Batman" for a half-black, half-blue one, and one of the most popular is the "Pepsi," which is half-blue, half-red - and I have to respect that Seiko decided to take that and actually make it a real thing, at less than 7% of the price of a Rolex. I also happen to be one of the superior minority that prefers Pepsi over Coke, so I felt like I just had to have these in my collection. There's 7k of each produced in the limited run, and I'm hoping that maybe something crazy will happen with Pepsi in a few decades that would drive a complete collection of both of these watches up in value.
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One of my relatives does precisely this. I’ll forward him this post and see what his thoughts are, because he collects them. Don’t know much about this kind of thing but I always liked the aesthetic feel and look of G-Shock watches. A friend of mine introduced me to the brand several years ago. I never really wore watches though out of appearance factors but for their practical use. G-Shock accomplishes something of a blend between the two but also as I’m getting older, it’s becoming difficult for me to determine what’s in vogue for the new coming of age.
I honestly think, for most people, IF they want to wear a watch and are willing to pay more than like $50, a Casio G-Shock is probably the best choice. I happen to just prefer the analog aesthetic, but digital is generally easier to read and use and set, has much more functionality like timers and alarms, and, of course, G-Shocks are just really, really durable. Ever since I started wearing a watch again as an adult, I've taken notice of how careful I tend to be when swinging my left arm while walking and such, which is extra mental work (though perhaps it's also prevented injuries to my left hand, so it's worth it in the long run?). If I'm wearing a watch at all during any physical activity (which I usually don't, but there are many occasions when such timing is useful), it's usually the G-Shock I got as a present.
I think, with watches, it honestly doesn't matter, because basically no one notices. It's one of those things that I feel like I need to complete the look when I'm dressing formally, but it's not like people pay much attention to that part anyway, and in everyday wear, it's even less. Though, who knows, perhaps as non-smart watches become more and more relics of the past, a G-Shock with its sometimes hulking design or distinctive screen setup will become a conversation starter.
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I follow Nick Shabazz' sagely advice, so I own just a single watch. It's a Seiko SBPG001. Digital, retro-styled, with a stainless-steel body and a solar-powered battery. I should have bought some other one with a regular button battery, because the battery in it died and the authorized repair center in Moscow told me to fly to Tokyo if I wanted to replace it.
In terms of digital watches, I only have a bunch of cheap $5-$30 ones (as a recovering weeb, I enjoy the occasional $5 anime-branded Casio knockoff), along with a Casio G-Shock I got as a gift, I gotta say, that's one sexy-looking watch. I've been interested in getting a solar-powered digital watch, because I hate paying to replace batteries (though, it's not like automatics are any cheaper, in terms of regular maintenance - it's just that I can fool myself into ignoring the necessary maintenance with them), and I might look into that one.
I hope you have more sun wherever you live in, because it's very annoying to have your watch start dying on you every winter.
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I like watches in that I have a couple of nice watches I wear if I'm dressing up. Both of them were gifts from my wife: one is a quartz Fossil she gave me for our first anniversary, the other is a mechanical Tissot she got me for my birthday one year. I generally use the Tissot if I wear a watch, as it's both more comfortable and I enjoy the craftsmanship and engineering which goes into a mechanical watch. I also have a pocket watch I like, though that obviously doesn't get as much use as a wristwatch.
I definitely don't collect watches, though. The three I have are more than enough for me. And I would never in a hundred years get a Rolex. I'm not interested in paying obscene prices to play silly status symbol games. Heck I wouldn't have even bought the Tissot that I have - at $800 it is way more than I would spend on a watch, and I made my wife promise to skip giving me Christmas presents that year when I found out how much it cost. Needless to say a Rolex or other luxury watch brand isn't something I would ever consider buying.
Tissot was actually the first "nice" watch I bought, on a whim at an airport jewelry shop while waiting for a flight. After taking my jaw off the floor at the watch prices, I zeroed in on the cheapest one and got a $200 quartz Dream Classic with Roman numerals (for which I'm a sucker) with a large 42mm dial, for the easy readability. I knew practically nothing about watches and mechanical vs automatic and whatnot back then, but I learned later that Tissot had a really good reputation as a Swiss brand for the sub-$1k market (that this is considered a "cheap niche" rather than "premium" is just... perhaps SNAFU is the right term). I bought another Tissot, a Le Locle (also with Roman numerals), at about $500 some time later, and I do like both of them. Very light and slim, and discreet.
As someone who rides a bus and subway most workdays of the week, I've certainly realized that I'm never going to regularly wear a real luxury watch or even "premium" watch, which is one reason among many that I've gravitated towards cheap Chinese knockoffs. Crime in my commute is pretty much not an issue, but the thought of having multiple $thousands taken off of me in a near-untraceable way triggers my paranoia quite a bit.
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Everything I know about watches (aka practically nothing) I learned from Paul Graham's recent post on the subject.
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It's kind of funny (and interesting) how Rolex has developed over the years, from a solid, reliable, hard-working brand associated with the military into a high-end bougie peice of artwork sold through high-pressure tactics.
Talking with my boss one day(ex-Naxy), he remarked that he had a watch he bought way back when that he can't wear simply due to insurance if he got it damanged/lost and wanted it replaced, and I immeadiately pegged it as a old Submariner.
Listening to some guys talk has turned me off Rolex before I could get any serious interest in it. If I was going for a high-price watch as a daily driver(assuming I had the money to spend), I'd probably be aiming for an Omega or Bulova(ie, the other moonwatch). Bulova actually put out a version of the watch where the face was a carved slice of meteor - I had to seriously hold myself back from doing something useless and stupid despite being really flipping cool.
Granted, I do like space. My one 'white whale' for a watch is Omega Speedmaster's 'Moon to Mars' - yeah, I'm not getting ahold of that anytime soon unless I get stupidly lucky.
If you want another watch rabbit hole to go down, look into Vostok - it's basically a USSR/Russian brand watch that has so many variations in terms of looks and facing it's hilariously awesome. Plus, a number of them are wind-up, which I like the appeal of.
Going to a Rolex boutique has certainly turned me off them. But it's probably just sour grapes for me not being high-enough status that Rolex doesn't just bring out the secret stash from the back for me. My money is just as good as fake Johnny Depp's, damnit! After that experience at Rolex, I've certainly started considering an Omega Speedmaster, but I haven't done enough research into them yet, as they seem to have a bunch of different models, and I don't know which ones have the proper lunar landing connections to be good for value speculation.
I mean, if your aim is to go for originals(in terms of Omegas), you're going to be paying a steep price. I suppose one could argue that they'd have good valuation, but I've never really sketched out how the market price has changed over time. I was going to point toward an article about the history of early Omegas and their space-race pedigree, but apparently it's been taken offline. Go figure. [Edit] Nevermind, I found a good replacement article with plenty of pictures. Maybe I'm easy to please, but I have to admit, I really do like the look of Speedmasters. Gorgeous things.
Mind, if you're honestly aiming to have a 'proper' Rolex, in terms of them built before it became an over-priced brand, you could always go to Japan. Japan is apparently know for it's used-Rolex market due to Japan Reasons. Mind, in this case 'used' doesn't exactly mean 'cheap', but...
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I'm pretty sure I saw Trump do his own Trump-brand watches, which look, you know, how you would expect. The more reputable Chinese watch brand names in the single-digit-hundreds range generally have quite high quality like you've discovered. Right now for big-name Western brands, subjectively, you get what you pay for up to about 3-5k MSRP and after that you're paying for soft factors (such as willingness to put up with Rolex bullshit)
@07mk Trump himself wears a Patek Philippe Golden Ellipse, which is a rather surprisingly understated watch for Trump.
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Hm, you're right. Its FAQ explains that they're actually sold by a company called TheBestWatchesOnEarth LLC, which I'm absolutely shocked is not an actual Trump company, and which licenses the Trump name and brand and everything. The first 3 types of watches listed for Men's are: Fighter, Warrior, and Mugshot Suit. As always, Trump proves un-parody-able.
I haven't had any of them long enough to say, but that's certainly been my experience so far, from a few I've bought in the $70-$300 range from Chinese brands Tandorio, Berny, Addiesdive, and San Martin. San Martin is the most expensive of those, and I just had to get one of their watches which featured Chinese characters for the numbers, which I haven't been able to find in any other brand, not even other Chinese brands. I bought a few from Tandorio with customized engravings (and one with customized dial) since even with the customization they came out to the $120-$250 range, and I just hope they're made well enough to last long enough that I'm capable of feeling nostalgia for the reasons for the customizations. I'll probably turn to Tandorio for gifts every once in a while for my male relatives/friends.
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Don't know much about watches, but based on my careful study of /r/watchescirclejerk, try giving the AD a charcuterie board and a night with your wife if you want to get the call earlier. If you want the privilege to exchange funds for goods you need to go the extra mile.
I don't think your kids would much care for a watch.
If I'm fortunate enough to survive as a POW or at least have a close friend of mine survive as a POW instead of being turned into a goop of chemical bonds for fuelling AI killbots in the coming robot wars, I certainly don't plan on sticking anything up my ass just to keep it. Then again, if I demand my wife bite the bullet (or rather not bite anything, unless the AD's into that) to help secure such an artifact for our child, perhaps I should be willing to at least carry a hunk of metal in my ass for a few years. I don't expect to have any friends nearly as cool as Christopher Walken, though.
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