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I was following with interest the recent discussion here on the degenerate nature of hardcore anime fandom and I find that there are aspects to this that nobody mentioned. In this comment I'd like to call attention to one of these. Namely:
I propose the argument that feminist ideology has reached a level of cultural influence in the West sometime around 2008-2012 where unironic* depictions of conventionally attractive, sexually alluring, non-girlboss female characters have become taboo in the eyes of normie women**.
*Unironic in the sense that it's by no means done for the purpose of ironically conveying some politicized message about the sad reality of the male gaze, societal sexism etc.
**That is, women that are either lipstick feminists or conform to the norms of the (surely present) lipstick feminist women in their social circle. In other words, the big majority of women, or at least of young urban women.
Since the Japanese anime industry does not abide by these cultural norms, the consequence of this is that anime as a whole is increasingly suspect in the eyes of normie/NPC women, which has at least two consequences of its own. One: the male partners and/or friends of these women, who are usually cucky and normie-oriented betas, evidently adopt the same view, which contribute to its spread. Two: this provides an incentive to notice, thematize and even embellish the off-putting manifestations of anime fandom.
I'd make two more related observations as potential food for thought from this very forum.
@urquan has made a somewhat similar point before: resolute (male) attempts to counter-signal against the taboo on sexual display in a workplace setting are intensely off-putting to normie women. (The difference here is between intensely off-putting and, well, merely off-putting.)
This comment by @WhiningCoil also caught my attention:
Considering that the Berserk franchise contains excessive amounts of brutal violence, horror and gore, and as does Game of Thrones, plus not only "sexposition" but also explicit sex, rape, incest etc., I find it telling that it was a groping scene (which, it should be mentioned, was unironically accidental) that finally crossed the line in her eyes.
And finally a general point: this entire phenomenon has no female counterpart. That is, we see no similar widespread disapproval of (more or less) goonerbait cultural material directed at women. In fact, it appears to me that there is a general push to normalize it.
I hope someone here can answer this for me.
What are some good anime shows for someone who likes Dragonball Z, Death Note, YuYu Hakusho, JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure, etc.? When I was in high school I was into anime like that but was never a complete die hard fanatic. Also, is there anime that leans on the somewhat conservative end of things?
Specifically for the issues you cite is why I could never get into anime as a subject in its totality.
The sub-genre you seem to like most is called Shonen. Some recommendations are here: https://gamerant.com/best-shonen-anime-to-watch/
Personally I highly recommend Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood. I thought it had a fairly conservative message all around, but not obnoxiously so. I mean, it does follow the law of conservation at least, (haha).
Dragonball Z had a lot of sexual stuff in it, but it might have gone over your head if you were a child. There were dramatic nosebleeds, an old man who was a pervert, etc.
No Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?
Gurren Lagann is my favorite counter to feminist complaints about media. Most pieces of media I hear their complaints about don't really fit the bill. Gurren Lagann, on the other hand, fully embraces a masculine worldview and is full of blatant examples of the "male gaze", thinly veiled phallic references, etc. And it shows you that all that stuff is actually totally super awesome and not the horrific evil feminists claim it is.
In fact if anything, feminism kind of maps on to the anti-spirals in the series decently well. And the ending of the series basically amounts to "Yeah maybe our capacity to continually grow and improve through our masculine strength and efforts is destined to inevitably destroy the entire universe, but we're going to make it not-inevitable through sheer force of masculine will".
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Thank you for this. Your link hits the mark pretty well. Hell’s Paradise sounds like an awesome anime they describe. Full Metal Alchemist seems so-so. I tend to like linear plots that focus less on character development (Death Note did this well, though I found myself bored of the dialogue at times and liked the exchange of trickery between the characters) and more-so interesting ideas or power interactions between people or systems.
I fully got the references and innuendo in DBZ when I was younger, but it was nowhere near as extreme as much of the other anime you could find.
Fullmetal Alchemist had some really cool ideas. The story begins with a difficult problem and as the plot continues the problem seems to get more and more impossible and maybe not as important as some other things, but then main characters get out of the problem at the very end. The way they get out of the problem seems "correct" in hindsight but was also very cathartic and hard to guess ahead of time. There's one big magic system that everyone uses differently, along with some competent muggles who make things interesting.
I wouldn't write it off based on a blurb. I persist in recommending it, if only because it's fairly short for a shonen and you can probably figure out if you like it or not by the 5th episode or so.
I second the recommendation. FMA:B is one of the best anime series I've ever seen, bar none.
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Dragonball Z was instrumental in teaching kids how the real world works. The guy who beat everyone up gets best girl, the autist is stuck with his childhood sweetheart, the short guy has to marry a robot, and the old guy that owns his own island is a giant perv.
Your girl will happily monkeybranch to and get knocked up by a stronger, more powerful man—even though he and his buddy just brutally assaulted and murdered you and a bunch of her lifelong friends, from which you were revived shortly thereafter through supernatural means. And that perhaps “even though” in the previous sentence can be replaced by “especially if.”
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