site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 26, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Twitter's been acting weird for several hours. Turns out that Musk has done something extraordinary:

To address extreme levels of data scraping & system manipulation, we’ve applied the following temporary limits:

  • Verified accounts are limited to reading 6000 posts/day
  • Unverified accounts to 600 posts/day
  • New unverified accounts to 300/day

Of course everyone on Twitter knows that 600 posts/day is basically nothing, so it's basically something to get people to pay for Twitter and get that blue check, but even then it's not an unlimited offer.

Is Musk knowingly just trying to run the website down, or is there some logic here that I'm not seeing? Is this, finally, the much-predicted Death of Twitter?

updates:

It gets better

Rate limits increasing soon to 8000 for verified, 800 for unverified & 400 for new unverified

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1675214274627530754

Now to 10k, 1k & 0.5k

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1675260424109928449

all within the span of a few hours

I saw someone semi-jokingly say that the rate limits were increasing as Elon ran into them himself, and at this point I find that distressingly likely.

Man should have stuck to rockets and electric cars, though a more based Twitter is still nice to have.

Man should have stuck to rockets and electric cars

Consider the idea that he's not actually running the rockets and electric cars any better...

Tesla is worth over 800 billion so he has certainly done something right there. To your point it is pretty crazy that the CEO of one of the largest companies in the world is a full blown/terminally online twitter addict.

No I think this makes sense. The thing he did right was hype. With hype he attracted people good enough at the actual work to make a functional company, and enough funding to get it of the ground. At least functional enough to generate more hype. But 90% of what he personally is doing right is the hype. He has a ton of projects that didn't really go anywhere, but did generate even more hype, like hyperloop (heh. Hype-rloop). So of course he's terminally on Twitter. He's a PR CEO. He does Hype and Culture War and it makes his stock increase in value.

I'm not going to say he's a bad CEO in the getting funding and making his stock value rise sense. I'm not even going to say his pure Hype strategy hasn't been working, it's been causing all sorts of forces to gas him up like a DND deity powered by faith. But like- he's casting with Charisma, not Int. If his company is really worth 800 billion, its because he can be expected to generate enough hype to get other people to pump energy into his ideas until they become reality- I don't think it would be worth that in anyone else's hands though.

It's not that crazy, considering that the US already had a full blown Twitter addict as a President.

Tesla is worth over 800 billion so he has certainly done something right there.

That's actually an argument against him. There's no way Tesla is worth more than all other car companies combined.

So how much money have you lost shorting Tesla for years at this point?

I think Tesla’s valuation is high because (1) they do have a reasonably high margin car department, (2) they basically now have a national gas station chain as all other electric vehicles are using the Tesla charging stations, and (3) the hope that Tesla can solve battery storage turning them into the world’s largest utility by far.

The valuation obviously is based off of hope, but there is real substance and actual profit. Elon built a car company in the 21st century. People thought that impossible. Maybe we don’t assume he is an idiot?

There is very much a way because thats currently what it is.

Are you saying Elon is a bad CEO because the market places such a high valuation on Tesla?

There is very much a way because thats currently what it is.

Nah, stock market prices can get wild, and end up not indicative of actual value of the company.

Are you saying Elon is a bad CEO because the market places such a high valuation on Tesla?

Not directly, but sort of yes. It's more that when a company's valuation is so out of whack with it's fundamentals, it's a good indication the company is running on pure hype, and when that happens it's not uncommon for companies to crash and burn when the hype runs out.