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I'm flirting with a rather incendiary view.
Over the COVID era and the recent excessive developments in the LGBT movement, I've been looking into radical feminist worldview where my gripes with a lot of society overlaps with some of theirs. At least, a section of theirs. I can't help but think that they are at least partially correct in their analysis of gender dynamics, regardless of the solutions they purport. I also agree with them that men are by default degenerates that need tons of rigorous external tempering to get right. And that access to porn is a bad idea, I've personally seen what crippling porn addiction can do to a man. Now I don't buy into the rest of the grift attempting to promote what they regard as feminine features in men, and indeed such attempts at social engineering can be pretty disastrous. I watched this video last night about what it means to be a man in a sedentary, urbanite lifestyle that doesn't really key into our more primal instincts like before, say, the Second World War. A lot of cult classics like Fight Club and Taxi Driver had already impended signs of a male crisis. Combine with this the growing wealth inequality. The consumption of various media that bring to life our escapist fantasies across all genres like high fantasy or superheroes or science fiction or even highly romanticised high school dramas, actually serves to remind them exactly how mundane our life really is. Going forward, I think it'll only get worse as it festers with no easy solutions. Worse still, we're pursuing the wrong solutions by regurgitating the myth that all behaviour is socialised and not evolutionary, that we could get men to "unlearn" masculinity and "learn" femininity. In the end, such attempts will not only push the rejects over the edge, it might also risk creating more rejects. In many ways, I see Tyler Durdan as the "proto-red pill" media in how the persona gives the rejects what they desire and giving them an opportunity to pursue hightened competition in dominating in actual fights. The more woke the culture gets, and the more progressives freak out over the "red pill media" gaining traction and blame it as the source of "male entitlement" rather than a symptom of something a bit more complicated, the more these rejects' perception of society will overlap with the red pill crowd's. I realise the second part of my comment seems completely contradictory to what I'd said in the beginning, but what I'm trying to say is that radfems are correct in their analysis that the "degenerate phase" is the default phase of men and it requires significant external pressures to correct. Part of the problem could be that young boys being coddled might potentially give way to the mentality that life is a template where a series of events fall into place like they're a given like so: school -> girlfriend -> college -> job -> success. But if the habit of actively working towards your every goal isn't imbibed into you since a very young age, once reality confronts you, you become a doomer and just give up like you could do nothing about it. Like you were just born in the wrong household/class/society/whatever. I don't think the mainstream media is ever going to address this head on without being bogged down by what goes within the overton window of the culture war.
I know its a rather chaotic hodge podge stream of thoughts, but I hope I made sense in getting my point across.
Pulling on the Fight Club thread, I can speak directly to how men seem to need structure, challenge, and, yes, some form of 'violence' or otherwise direct physical risk to reach full self-actualization.
I'm a martial arts/combat system instructor at a local gym. Krav Maga.
I fully attribute most of my confidence and positive affect in life on my participation in this hobby. I'm really good. It makes me happy.
And I have now, across dozens of examples, observed exactly how getting to engage in a healthy outlet for aggression can turn a man's whole perspective on life around.
Guys of all ages come in having never thrown a goddamn punch in their life, they awkwardly cast Fist towards a thick, cushioned pad, they feel the impact and maybe their knuckles start bleeding, they tire out within a minute... and a wide grin starts to spread across their face. Not all of them stick with it, mind. But in that moment, it is like they've finally gotten to connect with their primal purpose and let deep instincts loose, and not only are they not chastised for it, they're encouraged!
Those who show up repeatedly and advance through the levels usually get really into it. Their confidence increases, they start training cardio harder, their discipline goes through the roof. We introduce them to sparring and they get hit in the face the first time and it shakes them up, but they redouble their efforts because being able to shake off a smack to the face is actually an important life skill. And this is where the Fight Club parallels really come to a head, when they're showing off bruises they received and talking up how excited they are to go another round. They'd honestly rather be in the gym getting smacked around than spending time at work. I have, personally, given a guy a black eye (accidentally!) and he comes in the next day sporting that thing like he received an award, ready to learn more.
All in all, what I see is guys 'discovering' and embracing masculinity beyond just the superficial brand that Redpill/manosphere types tend to shill. Its not just an image they're projecting, it is a complete renovation of the self. And all it took was learning to deliver an efficient and effective beatdown.
And one of the 'strangest' trends I've noted? The types of guys who take these classes tend not to be the jocks, meatheads, or 'bros'. My most consistent students are the fucking nerdiest, most introverted and awkward types you can imagine who are still able to maintain basic hygiene practices. Dudes getting masters degrees in hard sciences, who hold down tech or tech-adjacent jobs (One guy, about to get his black belt, is the owner of a company that does does computer repair and home networking!). They're not jacked, they're not looking to become jacked to attract women (some are already married!), there's really no superficial motivation other than self-fulfillment and the acquisition of a potentially useful skill.
Its like they've realized that there's some aspect of themselves that they have been deprived of since birth, and perhaps told that they shouldn't express, and yet having found a place where they can express it, they are driven to devote their lives and time to it to the same degree you'd expect a nerd to devote to any borderline-obsession hobby. And they're better for it.
Anyhow, I strongly feel that martials arts might be the sole remaining bastion of pure, healthy masculinity left in Western Society, and it is almost certainly the only one that hasn't come under direct attack from the Cathedral, like team sports, military service, and fatherhood have.
Which is why I also feel like the recent trend of Influencer Boxing, despite being silly on the surface, is actually going to be an extremely positive development if it gets young males to develop their martial side in something other than Call of Duty.
EDIT: I want to emphasize my point about it being nerds who are the surprisingly most devoted students:
Check out Mark 'the Zucc' Zuckerberg, training MMA:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Bu3_EW0muC0
I'd enjoy hearing how the sight of that guy throwing hands like a semi-pro has updated your priors.
The post that made me (eventually) create an account.
Couldn't agree more. A conversation I've had over and over with my close male relatives always starts pretty much the same "The day you really start moving from boyhood to manhood is the day you understand you're going to be judged on your performance forever. There will be people who "love you for you" but you are going to be judged by society (and by those loving people!) based on what you do and can accomplish." A lot of guys sort of zoom forward from there to "get a good career." While that should be a goal, I think it's far more effective to start with something personal that you can commit to daily: physical exercise within a martial context. The results really do permeate every aspect of life; social capability, overall confidence, (controlled) risk taking, career performance. Not to mention basic health and energy levels (side note: the wealthiest guy I ever could call a friend ALWAYs would say "health over wealth. I'd trade it all to have my knees back"). However, I think that this impact is actually seriously under-realized by guys who workout only for cosmetic reasons (obviously) but even those who workout with legitimate fitness goals. In my mind, this is because even if you're trying to PR on your squat, or get your mile time below howevermany minutes, or climb a 5.14 route, you aren't competing with the other members of the species directly. So it all gets blunted. Maybe there's some grey area here if you're doing it in a directly competitive context (an organized footrace, a powerlifting meet) but I still think it's miles away from training with the idea of "I can use this to deliver violence when necessary." As a military-adjacent dude (never served, but did contracting for a long time) I really see this in the actual badasses (combat arms, SoF dudes) who leave the service and still really train hard on guns. It's partially habit and partially them keeping up a readily available social network, but the ones who keep themselves in shape, do a combat sport, and do meaningful range drills really do walk around with that cliche "cool confidence" that's impossible to fake. For folks into Gun YouTube - compare the general attitude of GarandThumb to BrandonHerrera. Ultimately, unless you are career military (and even then) you do have to craft capability beyond Being The Biggest Badass In The Room, and that is important to realize and a big downfall for a lot of the Joe Rogan types who might sort of dabble with BJJ but never develop something else. Even The KingOfTheBros mixed MMA with comedy before he was the biggest podcaster in the metaverse. Still, the highly-personal and immediate satisfaction of daily training within a martial context, to me, needs to underpin life for males without serious medical issues (i'm talking mostly chronic, birth-related things, not mild obesity or asthma).
This is effectively a statement of my overall mindset for my daily life.
I work and try to perform well because that's good, but I would never, ever sacrifice my health to keep my job.
Yup, and interestingly I don't think I would ever recommend a guy go the military route solely for the fitness and confidence boost, but one can't deny that it would provide those benefits if you commit to it.
Genuinely, males 'evolved' to have a Männerbund that provides them the structure and an outlet for aggression against an acceptable opponent.
But in a world as comfortable as the one we live in, there's really no room for such an organization outside the military... except in the martial arts context. And even that can lead to an unhealthy place (see Andrew Tate) and yet I think without that we end up with a specimen of male that is of minimal use to anyone, not even himself, and knows this.
I think an interesting approach could be making National Guard membership way easier with different cores of seriousness. You're an aimless 25 year old who smoked weed all through high school and is now semi-employed. Great, you're going to PT a lot and learn basic discipline. You're an IT dude in his 30s who's looking for something like a Mannerbund connection and also want to serve? Awesome, you're now part of a Cyber Protection Team. You're former active duty SF, but your knees are weird from too many jumps and you want to actually see your kids? Permanent Training cadre.
The problems here are that
The Military still makes Reserve/NG just as difficult to join as Active Duty. Endless paperwork, multi-month delays, weird waiver requirements for tattoos etc. Age limits are also weird. If you're 35+, in good shape (to where you can crush the PFT), and have no medical / criminal record it's still bizarrely had to join.
Goldwater-Nichols while overall extremely good for the professional force, did make the place of the Reserve/NG a bit of a head-scratcher. Combine this with that fact that doctrinally, the Army still goes to war with Reserve/NG.
Mostly for the better, imho, the military is now a professional bureaucracy. And the American way of war is a lot more overwhelming logistics and material advantage than "warrior spirit" (expect for tiny elite units). Again, this is a great thing for running a technologically advanced super military that needs to be always ready for nation-state conflict. Culturally, however, that means the military is a lot more distant for men who just want basic feelings of purposeful camaraderie.
I'm pretty sure I read it in another thread on here and I apologize for not citing ... but someone said "Traditional male roles have been torn down over the past 30+ years. Good or bad for society is up for debate, but what isn't is that no replacement have been provided."
You also have the issue that in the modern world, unlike the ancient, war is generally bad even for the victors. Instead of fertile agricultural land and slaves and loot, the winners get the smoking remains of factories and a bunch of bombed out buildings.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/peoples-rights-far-right-extremist-civilian-militia/672493/
Reading this most of the guys involved sound like morons, but damn if the idea doesn't appeal to me. Just to hang out, train, prepare, and go when needed.
But I'd also suggest volunteer fire companies as a more productive equivalent day to day.
Yeah, that sounds pretty nice. Especially in wildfire-heavy areas in the West...it might be possible to do more intensive forest management and controlled fires if we had more personnel.
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Won't go into details (nice try, NSA!) but I went to a public citizens militia field day thing once with a buddy.
That shit was Call of Duty: Renaissance Fair. Dudes who had to bring lawn chairs with them to a makeshift range so they wouldn't pass out while reloading mags. Trading weird Confederate memorabilia the way I traded Magic Cards in the 8th grade. Dude's with sub-MOA $5000 ARs who couldn't hit minute-of-basketball.
There have to be enforced standards. Those are hard to rigidly enforce when your membership may also be the way you finance the organization. "Rick weighs 400 lbs!" "Yeah, but his toilet repair company paid for all the ammo and his wife makes great Frito pie!"
This is why my idea (sort of reluctantly) falls back to a Federal org i.e. the National Guard. The other alternative are the for-profit tactical training / security orgs. There are a million of them and, perversely, the ones that are largely bullshit have huge Social Media presence and the actual hitters have zero profile and names that are beyond forgettable. Cue Lil Wayne: "Real Gs move in silence like lasgana." Also, they're for profit and usually at the price points that only State/Federal agencies can afford (or maybe multinational Oil and Gas companies). It's not like me and my buddies can pool together an extra $150k for a weekend of training.
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Strong agree there.
The trend of undermining any and all possible healthy models of masculinity (as fathers, in particular) has been ongoing and while there's a lot of effort spent mocking the unhealthy models that arise, nobody seems particularly interested in converging on a healthy model, particularly one that might be appealing to a younger man.
In particular, there seems to be a glut of young men trying to strike it rich and famous as they (correctly) note that wealth and fame will actually get them positive attention (and girls, and personal freedom, and the ability to acquire neat toys). So they go all-in betting on stocks, or crypto, or some other kinda insane get-rich-quick scheme because hey, the worst that can happen is he goes broke and starts over again.
And your idea is pretty decent, since at a bare minimum it offers a life path with some fulfilling purpose and personal challenge and promise of growth and advancement alongside like-minded comrades.
I'm not a big fan of the 'national service' idea, but a culture that encourages men to develop their martial traits is likely to improve on what we have now. So give men viable paths forward that DON'T involve gambling their lives away hoping to strike it rich.
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I only had some karate lessons as a kid. They were kinda fun, but I admit there were times where I'd rather have been at home. Maybe I just wasn't old enough to appreciate it, though I did tolerate P.E. class up until like middle school.
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I can only second this. Getting into martial arts was the single best thing I ever did for myself, and dropping out for the time being due to various reasons is probably the single biggest negative factor dragging down my overall wellbeing.
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I concur, although I've always enjoyed combative computer games I never knew how much more satisfying boxing was.
Only dipped my toe into it, at the urging of a therapist at an addiction clinic.
Sadly because of a prior injury I had to give it up after cca 10 lessons.
The aerobic training was punishing but I didn't mind it that much.
Sparring was fun, except against women*.
Still, those half a dozen sparring sessions against 6' to 6'5" teenage guys were.. quite something. One of those things you don't know you have missed your entire life or something like that.
*at times the class of 10-12 young men had 1-2 women in it, and it was always awkward as fuck. Neither of them was either big or aggressive enough to make a credible sparring partner, and it was just .. awkward, I imagine for all concerned.
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Thanks for your reply, I've saved it for future reference!
This part especially hits true:
Which underscores the biggest problem with the redpill grift, its not so much about offering its followers a solution to their problems as it is about making them feel good about having them.
Yeah, whatever nuggets of truth, wisdom, and useful guidance are tucked in there, as with almost everything these days, it has become coated in a slimy crust of scammy con jobs by people claiming to have some special insight into said truth and wisdom... for a price.
Since desperate and lonely males are pretty damned vulnerable to manipulation, they're a ripe target for people looking to extract their money under the guise, maybe even honestly believed, of offering them enrichment and meaningful growth.
I mean, I get paid for teaching, so I also make money in this way, but I don't earn more per student that signs up nor do I offer special 'premium' packages or host fancy conventions for additional fees.
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