This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Some anon on 4chan /tv/, talking about the decline in movie quality, wrote "name ONE thing that has not gotten worse in recent years". From the context of movie discussions and the average age of 4channers, one can infer that the anon probably means roughly the last 10, maybe 20 years.
What say you, Motte?
My thoughts, off the top of my head, are:
AI. This one is self evident. Massive breakthroughs. Yes, there is a danger of Skynet, but that doesn't seem very serious to me at the moment at least and I do not share people like Yudkowsky's despair.
Spaceflight. Look at SpaceX.
Challenges to the establishment: This one is a maybe, and contentious. Much depends on whether you like or dislike the establishment. The first 15 years of the millenium were dominated by bog-standard Democrats and neocons. People like GWB, Obama, and Romney. The last 8 years have seen a partial breakdown of that order, for better or worse. There has also been the rise of wokeism, but despite many apocalyptic prophecies it has not managed to end free speech or liberalism. In terms of sheer numbers, I think that many more people are exposed to heterodox political opinions today than were 20 years ago.
Social media diversity: The Internet of the 90s collapsed into walled gardens and in some places into stultifying echo chambers, but I see reasons to be optimistic about the way things are going the last 3-4 years. Spurred partly by censorship on major platforms, people actually have started to spread out and build their own forums again. This site is one example but there are many others.
The anon wasn't talking about in movies? Because that's a defensible statement - outside of fidelity increases in camera tech (which really isn't better, it just gives film makers more options) nothing about the cinema industry has improved in the past decade certainly, and imo things have gotten significantly worse. Even the indie side is worse - most mumblecore (and mumblegore) might have been dull and pretentious, but it was so great seeing all those artists putting their visions on film without studio interference. And even if you don't agree, and think things would have been better if Greta Gerwig had run over the Duplass brothers and been jailed for manslaughter in 2004, it was surely better than nothing, better than watching all of those creative visions get bought out and sanitised by Disney so that now they're turning out more cookie cutter live action remakes and comic book adaptations.
I don’t think it’s just sanitizing after the fact. The issue for me is that almost all of them are coming from the same places — the same circles in Hollywood, the same film schools, the same social and political culture and so on. This makes it really impossible to have a truly unique take on a project as there’s nothing unique about your artistic history and therefore you’re interchangeable with anyone who graduates a film school.
There was a tweet that was something like
LA in general has a very high COL, and most people trying to make it in Hollywood spend years practically unemployed (they become waitstaff and baristas basically, and have to have a very flexible part time schedule to leave time for auditions). That combination pretty much excludes most people who don’t have families that can spend tens of thousands of dollars to bankroll a child chasing that dream. Most art is that way, if you’re going to “go pro” you need the family to bankroll you while you’re trying to break in. That’s a pretty effective filter for working class voices and given that conservatives tend to value financial independence and gainful employment, a fairly effective filter for conservative views as well.
Or, alternately, you can have families that are already in the business — note how many Hollywood types are related (Angelina Jolie is Jon Voight's daughter, George Clooney and Miguel Ferrer were first cousins, and then there's the Coppola and Barrymore families). So add competition with those "born into it" as another barrier for those trying to "break in."
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Also that this cultural clique has become far more insular over time, which leads to even more homogeneity.
The paradox of diversity... All skin colors sexulities and shapes united in ideological monoculture.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link