naraburns nihil supernum
6mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
It remains the case that any fair-minded person must be an Israel sympathizer. A hundred years ago there were Jews and Arabs living in that part of the Ottoman Empire. After the Ottoman collapse both peoples had a right to set up their own ethnostates. It has been the furiously intransigent Arab denial of this fact, not anything Israelis have done, that has been the root cause of all subsequent troubles. It is also indisputably the case, as has often been said, that if Hamas, Hezbollah, and the rest were to lay down their arms, there would be peace in Palestine, while if Israel were to lay down her arms, the Israelis would be slaughtered.
At some level, I'll agree, this is not our business. North of five million people have been slaughtered in the Congo this past twelve years, and nobody much (no, not me — how about you?) has lost a wink of sleep over it.
That just takes us back to Steve-1 and Steve-2, though. The Congo is nothing to me. Israel is something to me. It's an outpost of my civilization, organized on principles I agree with, inhabited by people I could live at ease with. They defend themselves, their borders, their interests, with the kind of vigor and thick-skinned determination I'd like to see my nation display. (If only!) I admire them and wish them well.
There's an affinity. In some tenuous sense, they are me, and I am them. The Gazans? I'll care about them right after I start caring about the Congo.
So there are a few reasons:
There's a cultural link between Israel and America. Gaza is culturally more alien than it's western supporters like to admit.
The USSR switched it's support to Muslims in the ME. After that Israel became a firm ally during the cold war and after.
Groups like Hezbollah are fundamentally enemies of the west. The end of Israel would free them up for other tasks and put the west in more danger, not less.
It's an outpost of my civilization, organized on principles I agree with, inhabited by people I could live at ease with. They defend themselves, their borders, their interests, with the kind of vigor and thick-skinned determination I'd like to see my nation display. (If only!) I admire them and wish them well.
John Derbyshire most likely cannot live in Israel or among a representative sample of Israelis any more than he can live among immigrants to the West he hates so much.
I increasingly suspect that the only correct decision for any sane person is converting to Judaism or at the very least relinquishing any claim to being white, because Christian whites are just brain-damaged and cannot tell a universalist ideology (even "nationalism") from a population's game-theoretically advantageous modus operandi. Strong vibe of round-headed Slavic Hitlerists.
It is absurd to assume that a more competent entity sharing your material interests is your ally rather than a competitor.
I increasingly suspect that the only correct decision for any sane person is converting to Judaism or at the very least relinquishing any claim to being white, because Christian whites are just brain-damaged
I am tempted to go to church right now purely out of spite.
Wtf is this nonsense and laziest possible name calling?
John Derbyshire most likely cannot live in Israel or among a representative sample of Israelis any more than he can live among immigrants to the West
That depends, presumably, on why he hates the immigrants (in Derbyshire’s case the answer is surely every conceivable reason, but still). I recall your comment about Germans and Turks, something about the older generation’s general anti immigrant position being itself a rather thinly veiled “just don’t like ‘em” racial revulsion, in your opinion.
But I don’t know that all European anti-immigrant sentiment is such. Much is a more general aesthetic reaction to crime, squalor, poor upkeep of homes (especially exteriors), unappealing dress and so on. Israel has plenty of all of the above (part of my complaints about it last month, or whenever that was), but there is enough Western civilization left in parts for an expat to find a decent life, provided, probably, that he can learn Hebrew.
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Notes -
First off the common "Evangelical end of days" excuse is nonsense.
John Derbyshire explains it with his usual bluntness that gets him in trouble: https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Britain/flotilla.html
So there are a few reasons:
There's a cultural link between Israel and America. Gaza is culturally more alien than it's western supporters like to admit.
The USSR switched it's support to Muslims in the ME. After that Israel became a firm ally during the cold war and after.
Groups like Hezbollah are fundamentally enemies of the west. The end of Israel would free them up for other tasks and put the west in more danger, not less.
John Derbyshire most likely cannot live in Israel or among a representative sample of Israelis any more than he can live among immigrants to the West he hates so much.
I increasingly suspect that the only correct decision for any sane person is converting to Judaism or at the very least relinquishing any claim to being white, because Christian whites are just brain-damaged and cannot tell a universalist ideology (even "nationalism") from a population's game-theoretically advantageous modus operandi. Strong vibe of round-headed Slavic Hitlerists.
It is absurd to assume that a more competent entity sharing your material interests is your ally rather than a competitor.
I am tempted to go to church right now purely out of spite.
Wtf is this nonsense and laziest possible name calling?
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That depends, presumably, on why he hates the immigrants (in Derbyshire’s case the answer is surely every conceivable reason, but still). I recall your comment about Germans and Turks, something about the older generation’s general anti immigrant position being itself a rather thinly veiled “just don’t like ‘em” racial revulsion, in your opinion.
But I don’t know that all European anti-immigrant sentiment is such. Much is a more general aesthetic reaction to crime, squalor, poor upkeep of homes (especially exteriors), unappealing dress and so on. Israel has plenty of all of the above (part of my complaints about it last month, or whenever that was), but there is enough Western civilization left in parts for an expat to find a decent life, provided, probably, that he can learn Hebrew.
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