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naraburns  nihil supernum  6mo ago (text post)   12703 thread views

Israel-Gaza Megathread #3

This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.

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White House scrambles to repair relations with Arab, Muslim Americans

One ripple effect of the Israel-Gaza war is the warp-speed unraveling of relations between President Biden and some of his most loyal voters: Muslims and Arab Americans. The open disdain toward Biden from many in a reliably Democratic bloc is among the many signs the conflict is quickly remaking U.S. domestic politics, with public fury over a Hamas attack that killed 1,400 Israelis colliding with the horror of entire families in the Gaza Strip being wiped out in Israel’s retaliatory strikes.

“It’s really crazy to me that the Democratic party destroyed 20-years … worth of good will with Muslims and Arabs in just 2 weeks, losing an entire generation that was raised in the progressive coalition, possibly forever,” Eman Abdelhadi, a University of Chicago professor of comparative human development who studies Palestinian Americans, wrote Thursday on X, formerly Twitter.

In an interview, Abdelhadi said community members weren’t surprised Biden was supportive of Israel. But “the degree, the blank check,” is scary, she said, especially given the mounting civilian casualty toll. Young people already are talking about sitting out the election in protest, she said. At a recent campus event that drew hundreds of students, Abdelhadi said, she told the audience, “I think Biden has lost the Muslim vote.”

“The entire room erupted into clapping,” she recalled. “This generation was raised in a time when Muslims and Arabs were constantly in contact with Democrats, felt and were part of the progressive coalition. Now that is completely disillusioned.”

Gallup polling showed that in early 2022, for the first time in more than 20 years, more Democrats said that “their sympathies” lie with the Palestinians than with the Israelis, 49 percent to 38 percent.

Publicly the administration has been fully supportive of Israel, while behind the scenes they're attempting to restrain them; the blackout in Gaza ended after barely over a day because US officials pressured the Israelis. Biden's response has been pretty reasonable, but this may turn into a bigger domestic issue if the invasion drags on.

Muslims are a tiny minority aren't they? What are they going to do, vote Republican?

The modal Muslim is going to have a hard time finding a political party even 1/1000th as anti-Israeli as they would like anywhere outside of Gaza.

The Palestine topic is a mind-killer of absolutely comical proportions for most Muslims.

I've noticed this as well. You'll have secular, non-religious and well adjusted Muslims turn into borderline Jihadists over the topic of Israel and Palestine.They will also start believing in insane Alex Jones tier conspiracies. I was talking to one who told me that Hamas didn't kill any civilians at the Music Festival on purpose and they were caught in the crossfire of them fighting the IDF. Some Jews are just as bad too. There's SJW Jews who believe in intersectionality and every progressive cause that will sound like Hitler when talking about Palestinians. This issue is so toxic it's not even able to be debated. It's like the trans issue multiplied by a billion.

This issue is so toxic it's not even able to be debated.

Yes. The meme is "the most complicated geopolitical issue of all time" is not really all that accurate. There are far more complicated geopolitical issues. The complicacy is just how emotional people are about the issue, not the issue itself, which you can more or less grasp within a day or two of reading.

How do I know this? Most I talk to about this issue who have the passion of a thousand suns about Palestine don't know the history of Israel, and funnier, Palestine itself. Most didn't even know that "Palestine" was under Ottoman rule before the British.

The complicacy is just how emotional people are about the issue, not the issue itself, which you can more or less grasp within a day or two of reading.

Matt Yglesias has a solution:

My plan to resolve the crisis:

  1. Humanitarian pause
  2. Hostages released
  3. Palestinians and Israelis all develop different, more reasonable preferences from the ones they actually have
  4. Two-state solution
  5. Arab states normalize relations with Israel

All we need to work on is [3] and the rest falls into place! Seems like it might be a problem...

Things were just so much more honest when the troublesome step was "???".

  1. Collect underpants
  2. ???
  3. Peace in the Middle East

Indeed. The number of people who didn't get the joke was high. But maybe that will eventually include MattY himself, as his habit of stepping on rakes and then blaming the foliage for swinging too wildly continues.

This issue is so toxic it's not even able to be debated

The last Model United Nations I attended would disagree, but then again it's a meme even in the US that having the reconciliation of Israel and Palestine be the objective almost inevitably ends in the delegates ending up in a deadlock haha

What would the response be to, "Why don't you also get upset at China for how it treats Muslims?"

Anecdotally. Just pure red hot rage and goalpost shifting and whataboutism.

There is several things going on here. This is not only about islam, the Uighur situation is geographically/culturally more remote than anything the majority of muslims in the US know or understand. This is a case where optics really matter too. China doesnt broadcast the situation with the Uighurs. They deliberately go out of their way to not frame this in a religious/ethnic sense. You dont have videos of Xi invoking religious imagery of "children of light and darkness". China doesnt try to justify what is going on, they just pretend its not happening. On a global stage, China doesnt seem to have a problem with muslims. Seeing a many middle-easterns dont trust western news sources, its very easy to pretend nothing is happening with the Uighurs.

Both Israel and the palestinians on the other hand have a very active propaganda arms. The picture of Biden hugging Netanyahu will be spread far and wide. Many supporters of Israel invoke clash of civilization rhetoric that is popular on the christian right, but will rile up muslims. The toxoplasmosis of rage is in full effect here.

China doesn't control the (a) Holy Land.

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