domain:amphobian.info
What are the clear misdeeds of the current ICE offensive?
From my comment, quoting the comment above.
Masked and armed bouncers dragging people away at gunpoint.
There are documented cases of people being deported to random nations, a few people have been made deliberately hard to find (from public tracking, limiting a family's visibility into where a loved one is)
Breaking a guy's leg and holding him in a hospital for 37 days without any charges after signing him in with a fake name.
Blue tribe emotions are not a reasonable guide to material reality.
Quite literally half of the country hates something and you live in a democracy so you unfortunately don't get to not care lol.
You can tell the optics suck because the economist shows his approval on immigration is down to -10% now versus +10% in January. Nate Silver shows him going from ~+9% to -4% with now (just) over 50% disapproval.
This was an incredibly popular electoral issue. He crushed the election on it. Now he's underwater on it. I wonder why???
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
I don't really understand what your comparison is here. I also don't care about whatever algorithmic rage bait slop event you're talking about. The Republicans shit their pants once about Obama wearing a tan suit. Does that mean all Republican concerns are now invalid?
The optics suck, you can tell they suck because they're terrible. You can tell they suck because people are shooting at ICE officers. You can tell they suck because city mayor's think they'll score political points by making it hard for ICE agents to do their jobs.
You can tell the optics suck because the economist shows his approval on immigration is down to -10% now versus +10% in January. Nate Silver shows him going from ~+9% to -4% with now (just) over 50% disapproval.
This was an incredibly popular electoral issue. He crushed the election on it. Now he's underwater on it. I wonder why???
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
1d ago
Oh, that looks like obvious malicious clown garbage. He has a broken leg. Why is he in the hospital for over a month with a broken leg? Unless that is understating his injuty to a hilarious extent, a broken leg is a couple hours of outpatient care and then getting released. Obviously this is a ploy to evade deportation, which ICE was trying to counter with the surveilance, and which this midnight Biden appointee, Hispanic activist judge is trying to shut down on ideological grounds.
You're right. It is a trravesty that that woman is a federal judge, abusing her position to subvert the rule of law for her ethnic nationalism.
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
1d ago
· Edited 1d ago
Better than anything I could write, but I assume you are posting it to this vile den of low agreeableness for a reason. So, some personal pet peeves which in my opinion detracted from it:
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the cast consisting of [generic Anglo name], [generic Anglo name] and a bunch of {REDACTED}s. Names should tell a story; omissions should also tell a story. If this is an internal government brief, why were the other names redacted? I can't suspend disbelief hard enough to remove the feeling that it is "I struggled hard enough to come up with two names that sound like good scifi thriller protagonists and can't be bothered to come up with more". (This is an endemic disease in SCPs - "redactions" following a pattern of "author couldn't be bothered to come up with something that will hold up here" + "some more sprinkled randomly for effect")
- In the real world, perhaps the field linguist would be Croatian, and the archaeologist come with three or four first names and a surname suggesting Norman British stock (because who else majors in these sorts of subjects with zero economic value and a distinct smell of pink ink on a musty map anymore?).
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"Dr. Markham". Seems to also be lifted from the memetic public domain's ideas of how scientists talk to each other (which is actually based on the ways of (notoriously face-obsessed) hospital doctors, who tend to be the only people with a doctorate normies ever encounter).
-
More generally, due to the above and more (e.g. dramatic paragraph breaks), my theory-of-mind sense only ever tells me that I am reading the words of an author who wants to tell me a scifi thriller, not the words of a scientist who has to write a concluding report for internal government consumption on a worldview-shattering discovery.
Imagine yourself in the shoes of your characters when writing, not in the shoes of other authors who successfully wrote the sort of story you want to write. Familiarise yourself with what they should sound like: classified US government reports, faculty lists, scientific papers and emails all exist on the internet.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
For one, I don't see why you need any of that evidence. Optics aren't even about truth, it's OPTICS. I'm not taking a stance on if ICE is too cruel, or if the pro/anti ICE narrative is more true I'm saying that ICE's optics as an organization are not good. As in, ICE looks bad to many Americans.
The optics suck, you can tell they suck because they're terrible. You can tell they suck because people are shooting at ICE officers. You can tell they suck because city mayor's think they'll score political points by making it hard for ICE agents to do their jobs.
You can tell the optics suck because the economist shows his approval on immigration is down to -10% now versus +10% in January. Nate Silver shows him going from ~+9% to -4% with now (just) over 50% disapproval.
This was an incredibly popular electoral issue. He crushed the election on it. Now he's underwater on it. I wonder why???
faul_sname
Fuck around once, find out once. Do it again, now it's science.
1d ago
Top 5 are Memphis TN, Oakland CA, St Louis MO, Little Rock AR, Tacoma WA. Oakland is the only one of those I particularly associate with immigrants. Also I don't really like the methodology of weighting larceny equal to murder. Looking at murder rate alone which is harder to fudge the top 5 are Birmingham AL, St Louis MO, Memphis TN, Baltimore MD, Detroit MI. Larceny theft alone does put Oakland and Portland near the top, which tracks.
Regardless, the "immigrants specifically make cities bad to live in" hypothesis doesn't seem particularly reflective of reality.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
1d ago
This is low effort sneering. Don't do this.
sun_the_second
could survive a COD lobby and a gay furry discord server
1d ago
You seem to imply treason is inherently loathsome. Personally, I see it as one of the crimes against states which are morally different from crimes against men. Morality cannot exist between entities that are so different in power and nature.
It's called ethnic spoils for a reason. It doesn't matter much whether the different ethnicities have immigrated recently or have been there for generations.
Just purview the list of US cities by crime rate, sort by total crime and check out the highest vs the lowest total violent crime rate cities. It's hard to miss the fact that the demographics are, with only a few exceptions, dramatically different. For example, among the lowest five, 4 have (asians + white) > 75%, while among the highest five, all have (asians + whites) < 50%. The difference for the black population is, of course, especially extreme. Hispanics is also quite noticable.
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
1d ago
A more complete account of (1) may look like: the price of farm labor will climb high enough, and American living standards will sink low enough, that Americans will do it.
Not everything can be automated, and as farming labour gets more expensive, Americans (who buy things downstream from farms) will need more money and hence higher wages to sustain the same lifestyle.
FistfullOfCrows
1d ago
How is this not literal treason? I guess fuck having borders and laws and shit.
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
1d ago
From what I've seen of US school lunches, you don't even need the power of mainstream media for that.
Dean
Flairless
1d ago
Because the bailey wouldn't have been as advantageous, obviously.
'They are agents of the state' is the motte. 'As much legitimacy as enforcing slavery' is the bailey.
Historically, it seems fairly clear that this is what happens: Lebanon, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, Jerusalem, the spoils machines in places like New York in the 1930s (which used to be carefully split so that the major political positions were held by one Irishman, one Italian, one Jew and one protestant IIRC) and the black machines in places like Chicago.
From the outside, it looks like America is already heavily focused around ethnic spoils - some of your biggest political debates are about to what extent ethnicity is relevant in job and university applications, the appropriate ethnic composition of universities and good jobs (between whites, Jews, blacks, etc.). Where and how children of different races should be educated, and how they should be treated by the law when they grow up. In more integrated countries these questions simply don't come up.
clo
1d ago
Yes, but the free flow of information beyond geographies is corroding shared reality. This all exists at the same time now. So what's left? Force?
Childbirth is something valued by many cultures, but I could just as easily see potential messaging for, and the people who buy into, "no ethical births under capitalism". So how do you square the circle? Fight to enforce your symbols over others?
clo
1d ago
So what you're saying is the (current) left is female coded and the right is male coded?
faul_sname
Fuck around once, find out once. Do it again, now it's science.
1d ago
Right, and this is why the cities with the largest foreign-born fraction (Miami, San Jose, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco) are the poorest, most crime-ridden cities in the country, while the cities containing the lowest fraction of foreign-born Americans (Detroit, Louisville, Memphis, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City) are beacons of safety and prosperity.
On the one hand, selection effects are absolutely a thing, and will explain at least some of that trend. On the other hand it sure doesn't look to me like foreigners turn cities into ethnic spoils engines, except to the extent that they make cities wealthy and some of that wealth goes to spoils.
faul_sname
Fuck around once, find out once. Do it again, now it's science.
1d ago
Before 3 happens you get "the price of food rises enough that the voters get unhappy, and unhappy voters are bad for reelection chances".
faul_sname
Fuck around once, find out once. Do it again, now it's science.
1d ago
Because they're posting videos from their own raids, and those videos get lots of engagement, and the reactions to the videos that ICE posts is largely in line with what you'd expect given what footage ICE chooses to show and how they choose to show it.
Dean
Flairless
1d ago
This is happening, and the optics do suck. You can tell they suck because people hate and fear ICE officers in a way they didn't a year ago.
Not too many years ago many of the same people hated a couple of catholic kids for standing at a bus stop and smiling.
Truly the proof of the fault was how many people hated them in a way they didn't the week prior.
WandererintheWilderness
1d ago
But fmac is not talking about material reality. fmac is talking about the optics. If people hate and fear ICE officers in an unprecedented way, this is strong evidence that their optics suck. Being feared and hated doesn't prove they're actually behaving badly, but it does, almost tautologically, mean that they are giving off a scary hatable vibe.
faul_sname
Fuck around once, find out once. Do it again, now it's science.
1d ago
Does this rule apply to any other political cause?
Yes? Is this a trick question? It looks like people here were pretty close to universal in saying the ATF was incompetent, malicious, or most likely both here.
For some reason, the cherrypicked image of his ventilated skull wasn't a cause celebre nor a moment for deep retroflection on the costs of a cause
Yeah, it is an unfortunate truth that "someone did an unambiguously terrible thing and now the world is worse :(" doesn't get nearly as much engagement as "someone did a thing, maybe it's very bad, maybe it's not so bad, but everyone has an opinion and thinks anyone who disagrees with them is an evil mutant".
Perhaps there are clear examples of immigration enforcement that weren't cause celebres for the Left?
Yeah, almost all of them. In (to pick an arbitrary Biden year) 2022, ICE deported about 70,000 people. Not more than a handful of those people were cause celebres. Likewise in 2018 (to pick an arbitrary Trump 1 year), and likewise this year.
orthoxerox
If you can read this, you're using a custom theme
1d ago
Where's the diversity quota? Ivy students need to have minority friends so they can claim they're not racist.
They explicitly do in blue states. I tangentially interact with the process on a daily basis. And deeper than that, there's a thriving market in fraud and fake SSNs. Things like "free healthcare for illegals" are fucking budget items in California. NY and other states spent billions on free housing, free benefits and free money for illegal immigrants. This was widely covered. The relentless playing stupid about this is honestly kind of breathtaking and intellectually damning.
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