domain:streamable.com
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
Just go after American farm owners who pay illegals American money to work for them.
You don't even need to deport them, make it impossible for them to work, make them poorer in America than they are in Mexico, that will solve this permanently.
If you aren't targeting the employers of illegal immigrants, you aren't serious about immigration. If you aren't pushing e-verify, you aren't serious about immigration. If Trump EXPLICITLY says he's not enforcing immigration against farms and hotels, it's clear he's not serious about immigration.
cartman
1d ago
Was it the mainstream media that put up videos of ICE enforcement with silly music in the background, or was that the administration itself?
Was it the mainstream media, or the administration itself that decided ICE officers should be masked and incognito, while performing arrests unlike law enforcement officials?
Was it the mainstream media or the administration itself that declared that violence commited against ICE was a direct result of Democrat rhetoric?
Perhaps if you ignore all the facts it's easy to assume that the cruelty and unusual nature of this treatment is all an invention of the "mainstream media" but such a perspective is not supported by the facts
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
They literally posted a montage of dudes in masks blowing up doors and arresting people with the pokemon theme song.
No media bias required to look retarded
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
It's also the El Salvadorian prison stuff. The whole vibe sucks.
Why does it matter whether illegal immigrants awaiting deportation are held in an American detention facility or a Salvadoran one? The particular illegal immigrants in question were sent to El Salvador because their proper country -- Venezuela -- refused to take them. That has now been resolved, and they were sent back to Venezuela.
ICE has to act in an "aggro" way, because they're law enforcement, and the people they are arresting don't want to be arrested. There's not really any way around that, aside from either doing nothing or by doing a form of anarcho-tyranny where minor violators (e.g. otherwise law-abiding people who overstay a visa by a few days) are punished but major violators (those intentionally staying indefinitely) are not.
Anyway, the Trump administration basically tried it your way in the first term. It turns out that no, it doesn't help; the news would post pictures of Obama-era detainees and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez crying at an empty parking lot, and the optics would be just as bad without actually getting things done.
atelier
Jimmys: unrustled
1d ago
They're not US citizens, I don't give a fuck. It's extremely sane, and extremely awesome. FAFO, lawbreakers.
Perfect is the enemy of good. When the GOP fields a "deport all lawbreakers except hotel and farm worker candidate" versus a "deport all lawbreakers" candidate, I'll vote for the latter. But so far, we've only ever been offered the former.
This has been my position since the Regan amnesty.
Totalitarianit
1d ago
I made a comment here that broadly addresses some of these points you're making.
The gamble here is that the optics will have significant utility in deterring other potential migrants. The short term results suggest that it is effective.
"Muh masks" seems to have become a meme here, but it's real. You're Americans, why are you okay being cucked by your government. Masked non-uniformed men are stuffing people into vans. Not just that, they're sending them to third world prisons??? That's insane. Obviously it's nowhere near as bad as the NKVD, but why are you okay taking even a step in that direction? What if the Democrats spin up the "super ATF" who start kidnapping people who fuck up their gun paperwork into unmarked vans to be sent to Romania? Government overreach is bad, period.
We know the potential of the online left to find, doxx, and terrorize people. It's not even up for debate. They will terrorize ICE agents' families. The tools and collective effort that anti-ICE and anti-Trumpers have at their disposal when it comes to identifying, locating and terrorizing these people is massive, and it will be an all-hands-on-deck effort. To them, they would be doxxing Nazis, so it would be for a noble cause.
They made ICE maximally inflammatory, and then you act suprised the Dems are inflamed?
I don't think you appreciate how little "Dems being inflamed" matters anymore. It's not because I, or many other middle right people want to do that. Some do, but I don't want that. That's not the goal for me. It has just become utterly impossible to not inflame Democrats at every stop. Everything Republicans do is racist or fascist, so it doesn't matter. It reminds me of this meme. It may come off as cheesy, but it is nonetheless a great way to convey what the non-left is up against every time they do anything that deviates from kit glove treatment of nonwhites or any "marginalized" community.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
Well they're explicitly not going after farm workers, even though a huge % of illegals work on farms. I'm sure the Mexican nanny labour market has gotten much tighter, but that doesn't effect as many people.
roystgnr
1d ago
People were noticing the problem a decade before 9/11 too:
Homer: "That little Timmy is a real hero."
Lisa: "What makes him a hero, Dad?"
"Well, he fell down the well and... can't get out."
"How does that make him a hero?"
"Well, it's more than you did!"
-- The Simpsons, "Radio Bart", 1992
It's silly to claim that victims of natural tragedies are all heroes, but it's no worse than silly. I think the psychology here is a much more concerning problem in contexts like due process and free speech rights, though. Most people really don't like "defending scoundrels", as the old quote goes. For someone who can't get past that, the only ways to resolve the cognitive dissonance are to either abandon the defense or pretend the defendant isn't a scoundrel, both options that can have awful consequences if they become popular enough.
the various minor offences they committed as juveniles
Nah. Either they were guilty of what they confessed to, or they were guilty of implicating each other with false confessions. Even supposing the cops bullied them, and the other half dozen witnesses, including in front of their parents, that would just make the false-accusation offences excusable, not minor.
Instead, I was treated to a bizarre presentation, which felt strangely paternalistic and maybe even a little desperate?
Partially out of laziness, and partially out of paranoia (sharing details could lead to my doxxing) I never written out a longpoast that's been on my mind since AI went mainstream. Basically I am deeply convinced that some dude(s) at Davos or wherever TPTB hang out these days, decided in advance that AI is going to be The Next Big Thing, whether it makes a lick of sense or not. I've seen, with my very own eyes, the very kind of workshops you're describing being rammed through in mere weeks since GPT-3 was published, and this happened in sectors famous for their calcification. There's an entire "Tech in Education" infrastructure devoted to getting kids hooked on chatbots as soon as they learn to read or write. There are incentive programs for public sector workers to sit through these kinds of presentations. It's nuts.
Now, is it a bubble? I dunno, someone recently linked some stats about OpenAI revenues, if they didn't do insane overinvestment, I think they should be fine, but the hype about it reshaping the world (+/-, chatbot romantic partners cooking people's brains, people's ability to research and think going into the toilet, etc.) feels pretty fake.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
That wasn't the question. The question is whether he was disappeared
What if we amend "disappeared" to "breaking someone leg and unlawfully holding them in a hospital for 37 days without charging them and while making them hard to find for a month"
Are you fine with your government doing that to it's people? Weird hill to die on lol
DirtyWaterHotDog
1d ago
We shall overcome, one day
Sigh. Nothing ever happens, until something happens.
I've spent the bulk of my life as a hyper-vigilant survivalist. Am I reasonably cautious ? Am I or a bundle of anxiety ? Idk. I can tell you, my parents are a bundle of anxiety. They've spent every minute of their life with that look on their face. The look of a man who thinks a predator may pounce on him any moment. A life lived in fight-or-flight. We didn't know Murphy's law at the time, but it was my parent's religion. I and my brother joking phrased my parent's motto another way: "Never stop clenching". The culture around us was much of the same. After all, we grew up singing the hindi version of "we shall overcome, one day". It tried to convince us of hope despite the length of the struggle. Yet. something about the the hindi translation of "some day" ("eik din") makes the good days feel even farther away.
I didn't want to become that. I don't want to become that. It isn't in my nature.
By nature, I am carefree, careless, a hopeless optimist. I mean, I did almost fail to graduate because of a paperwork issue. I did almost forget to sign an offer letter for my first job. I did almost get out of a car in neutral while on a slope near a cliff (This one haunts me). I am a famously careless man compared to my people. Maybe I'm just a good self-deprecating storyteller who remembers his cringe moments most vividly. But, god, being able to not care feels so good. I want to not give a fuck. In a way, it's the only time I feel alive.
I'm not being fair to myself. I can retell my story another other way. The elder kid of a large family who did everything right. Studied, good school, good major, good job, good relationships, no debt. Achieved every dream my parents had for me and paid for my brother's education. No fuck ups. I bore the burdens, completed my responsibilities. 100/100.
Finally, I could be my care free self ? Or so I thought. But, upbringing, environment and life have chipped at me. Like Half-dome, the glaciers of cynicism have carved hyper-vigilance into me, permanently. Or so I fear. So, I took a step. I spent 2024 and 2025 soul-searching. I made decisions that would let me care less. Surely, if there is less to worry about, I would worry less. right ?
Last couple of months have been weird. Weird good, weird bad. Aug was big for me. 2 years of my effort bore fruit, and I made the big life change that I'd been working to orchestrate. Switched to a larger company for less stress. Moved closer to my girlfriend. Returned to the city I want to spend my life in, so I could lay down roots. My brother's internship gave him a return off. My parents resolved a major housing issue that had dangled over them for 30 years. Life looked good. My targeted efforts had paid off, the light at the end of the tunnel was there.
I felt vindicated too. I was about to prove my parents way of life was wrong. Detail-oriented paranoia is not worth it. Don't need to live life on the look out for predators. If I do it right, my kids might deem my motto to be: "unclench a little".
Bruh, then my man Trump sends things for a twist. The H1b announcement turned my world on its head. A roommate had to be woken up in the middle of the night in India, so he could drive 8 hours and take a flight back. For 48 hours, I was dead certain I was going to be fired. My coworker took 3 layover so he could reenter the country before midnight. The man shaved his glorious stache to look like his passport photo at the immigration booth. It was mayhem. We were spooked, but Trump reversed the most egregious policies of the bunch. Thankfully, nothing ever happens. Until it does. A few days later, my brother heard back from his future-employer. They are rescinding the offer. Turns out, they'd been spooked too. Company is stopping all immigrant hires until the smoke clears.
Over August and Sept, I'd told my more-anxious-than-me brother: "You have an offer. They know you and like you. It's signed. They don't have financial issues or lay off risk. You've put off every personal goal for the last decade. Self-actualize a little. Spend time at the gym, do side-projects, try out new things". In hindsight, bad advice. Should've kept clenching. Brother's graduating in a couple of months. Those 2 extra months of prep sure would've come in handy around now. Shit's gonna be tight. Market is unforgiving for immigrant new grads. I think he'll make it, but man do things look bleak. The plural of anecdote is not data. I am definitely overthinking this a little. But man, every time we unclench, a once in a decade event trips us up.
That being said, Eh. It's not that bad. Life is still okay. The H1b issue is culture war rocket fuel in the other motte thread. But, here, it's little more than a narrative device. It could have been any other major crisis. I would have reacted similarly. That sense of lingering regret for not having clenched strongly enough.
I haven't given up yet. Optimism is a choice. It may a take a little more time for things to figure themselves out. But, I'll get there. I hit a pothole, but still on the right track. Breathe in. Breathe out. Back in the ring I go.
P.S: There's a silver lining. I've taken inspiration from our great first-lady, and I'm on track to acquire my permanent residence in America as a mail-order groom. Take a few pounds off me, and I'm decent eye candy, if I say so myself. Infiltrating your great nation and stealing your white women at the same time. Seethe incels. Seethe. :)
KMC
lurk moar
1d ago
You'll sieve out particular haplogroups, and that only if we allow the technicality of a chromosome being one molecule.
Yes, because it actually exists in the real world. You don't have to grind down to the level of molecule when you have chromosome, you can just stop there.
Unlike laws or morality, ethnicity is physically present in the world and can be observed, measured, and isolated.
daguerrean
1d ago
TheMotte is weirdly averse to admitting the Trump’s administration is often deliberately maximally inflammatory and absolutely does engage in “liberal tears” style antagonism. Yes, I understand that the media will always portray conservatives as the villain no matter what you do (Nicholas Sandman, Binders full of women, etc) but that doesn’t mean you have no agency in being more or less provocative. In many cases it may make no difference in your public perception due to media manipulation, but we shouldn’t ignore that Trump is openly, deliberately inflammatory
ActuallyATleilaxuGhola
Axolotl Tank Class of '24
1d ago
Masked non-uniformed men are stuffing people into vans. Not just that, they're sending them to third world prisons??? That's insane.
They're not US citizens, I don't give a fuck. It's extremely sane, and extremely awesome. FAFO, lawbreakers.
What if the Democrats spin up the "super ATF" who start kidnapping people who fuck up their gun paperwork into unmarked vans to be sent to Romania?
Gun people are meticulous about paperwork, and don't have much sympathy for people who don't do their paperwork. FAFO, lawbreakers.
So make ICE not maximally shit looking, and then let the Democratic leadership alienate themselves protesting something Americans like, instead of currently, where Americans are starting to dislike ICE.
I have already covered this before.
This massively undermines the legitimacy of ICE.
Perfect is the enemy of good. When the GOP fields a "deport all lawbreakers except hotel and farm worker candidate" versus a "deport all lawbreakers" candidate, I'll vote for the latter. But so far, we've only ever been offered the former.
They made ICE maximally inflammatory, and then you act suprised the Dems are inflamed?
I'm not surprised, I'm indifferent. They are inflamed because I exist. I don't care that they don't like it. No matter what I do, they will be inflamed and continuously encroach on me and mine. It's war now, war to the knife. The time for talking is over.
I write this not to wage the culture war, but to express what (I think) many who support these ICE actions are feeling and thinking. In the context above, supporting ICE makes sense. Your use of caps lock made me think you were genuinely distressed and looking to understand the other side. Maybe my answer is disappointing because there is nothing there for you to relate to (hopefully I'm wrong!), but I really think that many people feel this way and therefore really do not care what ICE does to illegals.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
Remember when Democrats believed that the people fighting in Iraq were bottom-feeder 10% loser retards who just wanted to be racist and murder sand-n**gers?
You should explain why that belief was as justified as this one.
Both are retarded beliefs, and both government actions are retarded as well
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
What about releasing an ICE montage over top of the pokemon theme song?
faceh
1d ago
Never said they had to frame it as opposition to women.
Andrew Tate surely doesn't. He frames it as opposition to "The Matrix."
What is a young man supposed to do when he's hobbled from the start by educational programs that favor women, college admissions that favor women, jobs programs and diversity mandates that favor women, and a general social environment that favors women?
He doesn't have to say women are the problem, if the problem is in fact the policies that create the outcomes he experiences.
If those policies don't change, he's at a disadvantage for life. One that he's forced to pay taxes to support, no less.
Who can point out that this is an obstacle that one can't solve by 'self improvement' alone, and demand policy change?
If there is no such person, where do we think this ends up?
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
ICE themselves posts videos of them raiding places. They posted a video to the pokemon sound track. The pokemon one has clips of masked dudes blowing up doors. It doesn't look good man.
It does, to the target audience, which is why they do it.
There is no way ICE can have good optics for Democrats and those who watch mainstream-left media. So they don't bother, which leaves them free to pander instead to those who are receptive.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
It's also the El Salvadorian prison stuff. The whole vibe sucks.
I agree, the objection wouldn't have changed a lot, but the sway it has over the median American would.
If ICE acted in a less shitshow aggro way, the opposition to them would look more like crying blue-hair SJWs and not a broader coalition of SJWs, Americans who don't like para-military themed law enforcement, etc
Then, it would be a really intelligent wedge issue to bait democratic leadership into opposing something broadly popular, instead of now something that half of Americans don't like.
about whose guilt he was factually wrong, sadly
Excuse me? Those men are guilty as sin, and obviously so. They did, in fact, rape and murder that woman. The fact that they are still breathing is an affront to justice, and one of Trump's best qualities is that he was right on the money about them decades ago.
ETA:
The woman was in a coma, left for dead, but didn't die. I am wrong about details, and can and do quibble about direction below, but she didn't die, there was no murder, and I should have let go of my annoyance instead of shooting off a contrary reply.
Had I come to my senses earlier, I'd have cancelled, or deleted swiftly. I didn't.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
ICE themselves posts videos of them raiding places. They posted a video to the pokemon sound track. The pokemon one has clips of masked dudes blowing up doors. It doesn't look good man.
You don't even need the media lol, they're structuring their own optics. It doesn't look great.
WhiningCoil
Ghost of Quokka's Future
1d ago
"Muh masks" seems to have become a meme here, but it's real. You're Americans, why are you okay being cucked by your government. Masked non-uniformed men are stuffing people into vans. Not just that, they're sending them to third world prisons??? That's insane. Obviously it's nowhere near as bad as the NKVD, but why are you okay taking even a step in that direction? What if the Democrats spin up the "super ATF" who start kidnapping people who fuck up their gun paperwork into unmarked vans to be sent to Romania? Government overreach is bad, period.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Unlike Judges and Prosecutors which are a small, relatively cloistered group if need be, ICE is the law enforcement front line. And there is an active threat to dox and murder them. Sure you can prosecute the people who do, but it doesn't un-murder the husbands and fathers.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1d ago
But regardless of media spin they are actively choosing to have insane optics. The Hyundai plant. Tiktok videos with the pokemon theme song "gotta catch em all" on what I thought was a very serious topic that required significant government resources.
Also, again, they'd be way more justified if this wasn't so obviouslyfake. They don't actually want to solve this, they just want the base to think they are. It undermines all of it.
Where is e-verify? Why are they not going after illegal immigrants in hotels? Or farms? Why aren't they going after american employers, all of whom are documented, who make up a much smaller # of entities to deal with? American citizens pay illegal immigrants American dollars to work. Go after them! That's so much easier, that's so much more effective. Illegal immigrants will deport themselves if they can't make money to send home, they're not here for fun.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
· Edited 1d ago
ICE's mission obviously isn't a bad mission, and most people agree with the overall goal.
The second part does not appear to be true. Or rather, it is true that "most" people agree with it, but there's a significant number opposing it both rhetorically (including here) and physically who do not, and that should not be ignored.
ICE's conduct is obviously not good, especially in an American context, which is a country that (ideally) has a stronger aversion to government overreach than most.
This is pretty much unproven. There's lots of stories, but most of them describe pretty ordinary law enforcement stuff (which I often object to, but applying such complaints only to ICE is not valid) and often use overwrought words like "kidnapping".
Democratic talking points like "if you're not enforcing the law in the way we would prefer you enforce it, you're not serious" are themselves not serious.
Polls are a lame argument when talking about public opinion and optics???
If you don't accept polls with evidence to the contrary of your views, and you don't accept arguments about shootings increasing being a sign of public opinion, then what evidence do you accept?
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