domain:savenshine.com
urquan
I saw under the sun that in the place of justice, even there was wickedness.
1hr ago
And then of course there are Anglicans (and, of course, continental Lutherans), who are very insistent that they have a chain of apostolic succession, even if the Vatican disagrees and the Orthodox... don't really care either way, apostolic succesion is tied to Church communion for them.
TheDag
Per Aspera ad Astra
1hr ago
Luckily the Eastern Orthodox, with a variety of Patriarchs, don't have this problem.
TheDag
Per Aspera ad Astra
1hr ago
I’m curious though how you perceive ecclesiastical authority to be distinct from ideological? To me obviously they feel to be fundamentally intertwined, as “personnel is policy” as they say in the secular political world, but is it typical in either East or West orthodoxy to consider them quite distinct?
Both East and West tend to cite apostolic succession as the bedrock of their authority. Obviously Protestants tend to disagree because, well... none of them have a true chain of apostolic succession.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
1hr ago
What justifies the violations of freedom that allow that material control?
They've observably gotten a lot of mileage out of material inequality and various flavors of materialist apocalypse.
The question isn't whether race is their biggest, best wedge in the American context. It certainly is. The question is whether the giant hammering that wedge ceases if the wedge were to be taken away. I'm pretty confident it does not. They will find their next-best alternative, and continue swinging.
2rafa
1hr ago
She is receiving the money as reparations for an unjust system of oppression
Does it count as reparations if the donors are almost certainly all white?
got them out of the state
Not to be trite, but America has to get very, very, almost unfathomably bad for someone to move back to Somalia.
TheDag
Per Aspera ad Astra
1hr ago
This is the version I have always heard. Specifically, the Patriarch excommunicates the legates, not the Patriarch of Rome. Which is a crucial distinction:
Relations between East and West had long been embittered by political and ecclesiastical differences and theological disputes.[1] Pope Leo IX and Patriarch of Constantinople Michael Cerularius heightened the conflict by suppressing Greek and Latin in their respective domains. In 1054, Roman legates traveled to Cerularius to deny him the title Ecumenical Patriarch and to insist that he recognize the Church of Rome's claim to be the head and mother of the churches.[1] Cerularius refused. The leader of the Latin contingent excommunicated Cerularius, while Cerularius in return excommunicated the legates.[1]
From https://orthodoxwiki.org/Great_Schism#cite_note-Cross-1.
Most of the Church didn't realize there's a permanent Schism, it slowly develops over time. The Massacre of the Latins in Constantinople in 1182 was a more significant event, with 60,000 Latins dead or sold into slavery, but the Schism probably really became permanent in the Fourth Crusade with the Sack of Constantinople.
This is another major issue which... is pretty unambiguously the fault of the See of Rome.
While I'm sure there are a ton of small historical details you can quibble about, to me the overall thrust makes it pretty obvious that Rome is in the wrong. That being said, I try to be ecumenical and I do hope that the Church can become whole again one day. We'll see!
ABigGuy4U
2hr ago
The Pakistani defense minister was also spouting off about how a “limited nuclear exchange” couldn’t be ruled out.
There is your intention as the author; there is the result of the code as it functions; there are various interpretations of the code by outside observers/users...none of which necessarily overlap or align. Which is the objective "purpose" and what is the reliable method for determining it?
It doesn't matter which of these you'd like to call "purpose"--with any of them there's a difference between that and a "sense of purpose". It's reasonable to discuss code having a purpose by any definition, it's certainly not reasonable to talk about it having a sense of purpose.
I don't care to litigate the proper definition of the word "purpose". So long as you agree that the concept exists, I think we can agree that it's a different thing from the perception of it, which is my point.
Can you come up with any definition of the word "purpose" that does not differentiate between itself and a perception of itself? If not, why are we arguing?
sodiummuffin
2hr ago
Why? It's riffing off religious arguments about faith, where the reason there isn't proof of God is that he's testing our faith or whatever. "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” and all that, so even though God wants us to believe in him and created the world he deliberately made it look like a world created by unthinking natural processes and restricted his miracles to unverifiable anecdotes. This is an argument that exists precisely because God isn't real so there's a demand for backwards logic where the lack of evidence to believe in God is itself a reason to believe in God. He humorously inverts this into an argument where, if there was actually proof of God's existence, it would be proof of God's nonexistence. This is then compared to proving that black is white. In real life, of course, he didn't think that the lack of evidence for God is a reason to believe in God (or that there is evidence of God which means we shouldn't believe in God). He thought that the lack of evidence that God exists means that God actually doesn't exist.
AvocadoPanic
2hr ago
too adult
Have you tried Grok?
I know for no reason at all that it will happily produce period erotic stories from from various historical periods featuring violent and / or racist ideologies.
yunyun333
2hr ago
There are people that argue this. For example: https://www.academia.edu/97411885/This_Generation_in_Matthew_24_34
Like this last group of scholars, I would suggest that, in Matthew 24:34, η γενεα αυτη denotes the people of Israel who are unfaithful to God. I will seek to demonstrate that thesis in these lectures by showing that (1) qualitative uses of γενεά were common in ancient Greek literature, that (2) this specific qualitative use of γενεά was used in Deuteronomy 32, which is the source of Jesus’ “this generation” sayings in Matthew, that (3) this allusion to Deuteronomy 32 is part of a larger pattern in Matthew of portraying Jesus as the new Moses who will lead His people of Israel out of exile and into their promised land under His theocratic rule, and that (4) this specific qualitative sense best fits the immediate contact of Matthew 24:34.
But again it all strikes me as special pleading, even though I'm sure this scholar put a lot of high quality research into it. Apocalypticism is a dominant theme from early Christian documents. They expected Jesus to return soon, because Jesus said he was returning soon. The prima facie reading would be what people back then understood.
Holy shit, they attacked jaislamer, Jammu and also Kahsmir, this is war, I hope nukes dont get brought out. Pakistan has attacked their fourth civilian target. Mullah motherfuckers want an all out war. They tried bombing Jaisalmer, tanks are at the border. Fuck these people.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
2hr ago
I think this is a case where there is a lot of mutual incomprehension between Americans and Europeans due to different historical mythologies reflecting different histories.
In the historical mythology that stems from a rose-tinted view of the American Revolution*, liberty is secured by the ability of the nation-in-arms to check the power of the armed forces of the democratic state. In the historical mythology that stems from a rose-tinted view of the French Revolution, liberty is secured by the fact that the nation-in-arms is the armed forces of the democratic state**. Finland (alongside Switzerland) is one of the few European countries where that is still a realistic statement of how the armed forces work. Contra Nybbler downthread, if you accept that worldview then the Finnish government didn't corruptly turn on its own people in order to appease the Soviets - the Finnish government and people surrendered to the Soviets after losing the Continuation War.
* The British cope for losing the American War of Independence is that we took a tactical drop on what we (wrongly) saw as the least important front of a three-continent mostly-naval war against France. This isn't quite true, but it is a lot closer to the truth than "Colonial militias were able to take down the British Empire by virtue of local knowledge and superior woodcraft."
** It wasn't
coffee_enjoyer
☕️
2hr ago
She isn’t receiving the money for insulting a child (with a word he is likely to use 1000 times in his life against other Africans, often with prejudice attached). She is receiving the money as reparations for an unjust system of oppression that permeates the fabric of America, where a small racial infraction while White leaves you reputationally and financially destitute. There is a huge difference here. It’s not for congratulations, it’s a sympathetic safety net for a mother who has to deal with institutional racism against her people in America, in a state which her forefathers braved the cold to build from nothing.
Two other things to note:
-
Somalians are statistically horrifying, with low intelligence and high cousin marriage, with a TFR greater than 5 and a grizzly Islamic culture resistant to Western civilization, plus a history of scams in Minnesota eg autism clinics. There are 100,000 in the state and growing. If calling every Somalian the N-word got them out of the state, it is arguably a moral obligation incumbent on every fairer resident to do this, in terms of securing utility. Shiloh is on the Right Side of History, if there exist future Whites in the state to write it in Deseret.
-
The funds have the secondary effect of deterring the antisocials from filming grievances that they instigate. If white people get money for their low willpower replies irl (colloquially called n-word fatigue), then we will have fewer White / Karen shaming in America. This is for the utilitarian good.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
3hr ago
I will resist the urge to meet sarcasm with sarcasm and point out that this isn’t reassuring to someone struggling with the number of contradictions.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
3hr ago
it seems more straightforward just to accept that Christ is speaking non-literally
I hope you can see why drawing a box around all the confusing, falsifiable bits and saying “yup those are the metaphors” might be unsatisfying.
Sure, a random Reddit comment might as well have negative value. Even though it’s citing a respectable commentary, it could be confused or lying, and I can’t exactly check at the moment. Can you offer anything to better represent “modern scholarship?”
ChickenOverlord
3hr ago
muzzle-cleaned-porg-42
3hr ago
I don't myself play MTG and board games (that much), but I sorta knew guys who did in college. If I am in uncharitable mood , the MTG/Warhammer/tabletop looks almost as bad as gaming. It can be huge time-sink, which can ruin your education / early career transition, it becomes a "hobby" that furthers no other adult life goals, and your peers are likely to play inordinate amount of video games, anyway. Phone media is the technological designer drug, video games are the 80s crack epidemic, in comparison MTG is more wholesome, but in way as cocaine was when they put it into Coke.
I am only guess here, but I would recommend:
(1) Diet of limited amount of computer games, but important thing is not only the time limits but developing the mental muscle to cut off the "one more turn in Civ" getting in way of other more adult priorities.
(2) Try to avoid them starting socializing with kids who are failing at that.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
3hr ago
As a non-American familiar with American history, I am inclined to agree with this take.
Even if you don't think that the Civil War was caused by slavery, it is very obvious from soldiers' accounts that the necessary hatred for Americans to cheerfully put themselves through four years of danger and material deprivation for the primary purpose of shooting other Americans had a lot to do with slavery. And of course most of the pre-Civil War political violence was explicitly about slavery.
And then post Civil War you still see ongoing white-on-white political violence driven by the Negro Question (the Lincoln assassination, Reconstruction and the 1st Klan, Redemption and the Red Shirts etc.) There is a lull after the anti-racist side gives up and cuts a deal to tolerate Jim Crow, but the Civil Rights Movement sees more than a little actual white-on-white political violence, and a lot of credible threats which end up getting walked back when it becomes clear that the Feds are not backing down. The fact that the Kennedy assassination turned out to have nothing to do with race surprised Americans so much that you seem to have had a collective head explosion.
In our generation, the George Floyd et al riots seem to involve a lot of white-on-white political violence nominally driven by concern for blacks. Rittenhouse vs the idiots is just the specific case that got put under a microscope.
I'm not aware of any other issue where white Americans are willing to kill each other and think they are serving the common good by doing so.
OracleOutlook
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
3hr ago
Like for example, and maybe this isn’t actually a big sticking point, the longtime celibacy requirement of the Western church, I heard there was talk of changing that?
This is 100% capable of change, because it is not a matter of faith or morals. There is no declaration at all that requires us to believe that priests must be celibate as a matter of faith or morals. Of all the things that people list, this is such an easy thing to change. Almost as easy as rescheduling the donuts and coffee get together after mass. About as significant to our theology as rescheduling a parish breakfast.
We currently have married priests! One was my neighbor! If an Anglican or Orthodox priest converts, they are still a priest and still married. If a Lutheran pastor or similar level protestant converts, they can seek ordination while still married.
It's a discipline to have unmarried men enter the priesthood. Discipline means it's just a choice we made. Now, there's reasons we made that choice. But it's as significant as a uniform at a private school. It's distinctive! But it can be changed easily.
Doesn’t seem like there is much particularly different this century vs previous ones that that would become an issue still unresolved.
The reason people are talking about changing this is because there has been a real shortage of priests in the past few decades. That shortage seems to be changing - the flock itself is getting smaller, more young people are entering the seminary, there might not be a need.
There is a significant change this century, but either way this is a prudential matter.
but where does the power (theologically) reside?
In the Church's magisterial teaching authority. The bishops all together exercise this authority. When there are disputes, the Pope is where the buck stops.
Hieronymus
3hr ago
I appreciate the summary. Could you clarify what you mean by authority in this context? You seem to be using it in a particularly Mormon way.
It likely goes without saying, but the Protestant take is that the Bible is the inspired and authoritative guide to the apostolic faith and that all subsequent teachers are to be judged by that standard; the canon is closed.
Obviously, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have their takes on the apostolic succession, but I don’t think their notion of authority is the same as yours, and it would be interesting to see it explained from your side.
Yes. I would rather the commons be shit up than used as a weapon against me and mine. I know you’re not a social conservative but surely you can see why I would hold this view.
More options
Context Copy link