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UwU
2d ago
This is predicated on Iran not developing a nuke in the next few years without the most recent conflict. It's impossible to know with only public information, but at least the US and Israel believed Iran was close enough to one to warrant an attack.
ABigGuy4U
2d ago
The current state of R/Stupidpol is against the spirit of everything that the late Comrade General Secretary Dolezal stood for, and all currents of her revolutionary thought as transcribed in the Little Beige Book. I can only conclude the subreddit was covertly overrun and subverted by wreckers, Kulaks, and Gucci-ist counterrevolutionaries.
anon_
2d ago
I don't know that this works. LGBT folks in Egypt or Indonesia are powerless victims, their majority-muslim societies are their oppressors. You don't see the left fixated on them.
anon_
2d ago
I'm not sure I really understand why so many zoomers are so rabidly pro-Palestine.
I doubt there's a single explanation, but one crystalized point made recently on x was that leftism and islamic radicalism are both ideologies on the (relative) decline. BLM was the high water mark of left and can't win much any more. ISIS, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood are all basically defunct.
dr_analog
top 1% of underdog fetishists
2d ago
It is important when discussing Israel vs Palestine with someone to figure out if they're an underdog fetishist.
https://www.themotte.org/post/737/israelgaza-megathread-3/155650?context=8#context
Actually, not just Israel/Palestine. It matters for a lot of issues around crime and geopolitics.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
2d ago
They've been brought up on that oppressor / oppressed narrative and see every part of the world through it
This feels kind of reductive when this is one of the most clear cut dynamics of oppressor / oppressed in the world right now.
At this point almost two years in, how many times has the population of Gaza needed to walk to the north/South of the area so that Isreal can flatten another part of the half they just left?
They have 0 control over the amount of calories their population receives.
Definition of the word "oppressed" is "subject to harsh and authoritarian treatment." It's hard to think of examples of a more oppressed group right now, aside from gamers of course.
Hadad
2d ago
Part of me wonders if everyone would have been better off if the Isreali's had just ripped the band aid off back in the day and just straight pushed them out/completed the ethnic cleansing. The displaced Palestinians would still be salty, but they'd be a few generations into moving on by now, and they'd probably get bombed way less.
I will in fact explicitly state my belief that ethnic cleansing ~80 years ago was the most moral option, and would have led to an integrated Palestinian cultural remnant by now that's been broken up and assimilated into all the other regions -- including Israel itself. Instead, the world's accepted that Palestine is never going anywhere, but also accepted that Palestine will never stop trying to refight the conflicts it continually loses.
You break the country and the people decisively, and you relocate the survivors, and a few generations later you have a rough peace. Otherwise, you let every single generation re-radicalize and commit gradual violent suicide against Israel (and whatever Muslim neighbors offend them that day).
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
2d ago
I'm not sure if I'm sentimental, I just have a hard time feeling mad at them. I also have a preference for less human suffering in the world.
It's like having trashy neighbors who loudly fight and domestic each other. I get why they're both hurt, but I'm not going over there to facilitate couples' counseling. They can spend the rest of their lives making each other miserable if they want. I'd prefer they made up so I didn't have to hear it, but it's not that annoying.
Part of me wonders if everyone would have been better off if the Isreali's had just ripped the band aid off back in the day and just straight pushed them out/completed the ethnic cleansing. The displaced Palestinians would still be salty, but they'd be a few generations into moving on by now, and they'd probably get bombed way less.
Hadad
2d ago
Ok at this point I’m convinced you’re an intentionally anti-Semitic troll.
I'm not an anti-Semite.
The belligerent Israeli act was straining credulity already but this is just a 4chan screed about Jews that you’ve Cntrl find+replaced with “Palestinian”.
I'm also not Israeli.
Muslims just suck, man. It's not any kind of conspiracy or act. They're a wretched people, and I've supported exterminating the lot of them since I was a teenager decades ago.
Hadad
2d ago
A majority of that aid goes right back into our coffers, and lets the Middle East serve as a testbed for various weapons, as I understand it. ~3.8 billion annually through mostly FMF, thus mandatory to spend on US goods and services. Helps keep our defense industry active and prospering even during peace times, which is important.
I don't consider the expenditure wasteful. In fact, I'd consider it a good investment.
The Palestinians have alienated every single one of their neighbors single one of their neighbors, ruined every chance at peace they ever have, and maintained the world's biggest victim complex while being the world's sorest losers. The average Palestinian is a regressive piece of shit who supports the cruelties of his people -- he's just mad he's losing.
Ok, now I’m convinced you’re an intentionally anti-Semitic troll. The belligerent Israeli act was straining credulity already but this is just a 4chan screed about Jews that you’ve Cntrl find+replaced with “Palestinian”. You’re even playing up the Goebbels stereotype about Jewish projection.
Hadad
2d ago
I was surprised it happened without any leaks, but pleased with the result. It's what the bombs are good for.
Hadad
2d ago
Sorry, I meant they can coexist with America / the western world. A world better off for not having Palestinians in it, so I appreciate Israel's expansion -- though it should have happened decades ago, no one ever should have let a bitter, vengeful minority dig in roots. The net human suffering would be so much lower if they'd just totally conquered & displaced generations ago. Their greatest moral failure has been half-assing it.
AvocadoPanic
2d ago
Then let's leave them to it, but stop paying for it or supporting it.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2d ago
It seems like many Rightists got used to being out of power and haven't psychologically accepted that Trump's election is something that happened.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
2d ago
It's such a stupid idea, there's no way they will
I said the exact same thing loudly and confidently about Russia going into Ukraine though, so...
Hadad
2d ago
As opposed to brainrotted Boomers who think women and minorities are oppressed.
Those people are also morons, yeah. When the boomers have died off, we'll be living in a crazy world.
They didn't need Facebook to come to that conclusion yet arrived at it anyway, so the problem rests with the people, not the technology.
It's both. A better people would perhaps not be susceptible to TikTok propaganda, but we don't have a better people.
Hadad
2d ago
I don't think you're a bleeding heart lefty. But I do think this sentimentality is actively worse for the long-term health of the region than my lack of it. So, yes, I'd suggest being less of a bleeding heart. The world is unfair. It sucks the Palestinians grew up in these conditions. It sucks the world broke them.
But they are broken. Israel can coexist in a way they can't.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
2d ago
I used to enjoy going on /r/stupidpol
Eternal September comes for everyone eventually.
I really liked that sub, I owe it a solid debt of gratitude for shaping my thinking in some ways. I learned a lot, and also laughed a lot. It was basically antibodies for my intense dislike of the woke mob.
But man, they just cannot stop taking the stupidest most contrarian positions on things purely because the out group likes the other thing. Makes the discussion so lame and predictable.
Hadad
2d ago
I trust the ability of the Israelis to keep the Saracens at bay, given the existential nature of their grudge.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
2d ago
the genocidal jihadis are oppressed
I think it's very possible for them to be both genocidal and oppressed. I also think being genocidal has made them oppressed, and being oppressed guarantees they stay genocidal.
To pre-empt "you're a bleeding heart lefty", if I were dictator of my country, I would absolutely ensure a Palestinian refugee diaspora did not form in my country. This does not go well for the hosts typically.
However, half the Gaza strip is under the age of ~20. They've grown up living lives of poverty in a ""country"" that you can walk end to end in about 8 hours, and it's not easy to leave. I'm sure they grow up hearing stories of friends/family/neighbors who've lost loved ones, been injured, or lost their homes to isreali strikes.
If you or I were born there, we'd hate Jews too. I have a very hard time holding teenagers accountable for the beliefs they were born into.
If I were designing an environment to incubate terrorists I don't think I could do much better than the Gaza strip, it's basically a terrorist factory.
I'm pretty black pilled on the whole situation. I think both sides are too deep and too stubborn to ever resolve it. I think they deserve each other.
RandomRanger
Just build nuclear plants!
2d ago
Assassinating Bin Laden and other leaders is not why Al-Qaeda isn't a major threat to the US right now, that has more to do with improved security and intelligence operations preventing major attacks and ISIS stealing their thunder in the Islamist world. Right now they're focused on building up and developing with their return to Afghanistan.
TowardsPanna
2d ago
If the American empire isn't inevitably heading for its end already... Getting stuck in Iran would really do the trick. Putin would be cackling to himself.
Proportionally more Germans and Japanese folks lost loved ones to Allied bombing and yet 20 years later both of them were singing god bless America.
Perhaps a Japanese teenager during Hiroshima would be justified in hating America. Perhaps he saw his siblings die a slow death of radiation poisoning. I wouldn't judge his hate as unnatural or misplaced, only as counterproductive to his (individual and national) well being.
Understanding that one's reaction to events is not intrinsically true and that one's immediate inclination may not be wise is one of those critical mental milestones.
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