domain:mgautreau.substack.com
MadMonzer
Epstein Files must have done something really awful for so many libs to want him released.
2d ago
I don't think there was any indication the attacker was a conservative who hated them for being liberal. As I recall, it was more like some sort of dispute between friends or possibly lovers.
This was a dirty lie spread by Musk on Twitter. De Pape was delusional due to long-term drug use, but he was sane enough to stand trial, and at all times he continued to maintain that his target had been Nancy Pelosi and he had been trying to kidnap her as part of his delusional far-right political project. His other political activity at the time he did it was mostly watching Qanon and 2020-election-conspiracy material on social media. It looks like he had done an RFK-style left-conspiracy-theorist to right-conspiracy-theorist horseshoe turn at some point between 2014 (when he cancelled his Green Party voter registration) and 2020.
He was not affiliated with any Republican or far-right group, which is why I count him under "the school shooters started shooting politicians" category rather than right-wing political violence.
orthoxerox
If you can read this, you're using a custom theme
2d ago
War is a switch, not a dial
Is it? Is the US at war with Afghanistan? Has it ever been?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
a crisis that I don't know if there's any way to solve.
Consider the possibility that there may not be such a way. That Left and Right, as they stand nowadays, represent mutually exclusive memeplexes that are both internally cohesive enough to not collapse on their own. That the conflict must escalate until one side conclusively defeats the other, or until a third party forces an entirely new paradigm onto the belligerents.
2D3D
2d ago
That weird softvoice "and so i think" type of offensively gentle call to action is quite characteristic of ezra klein, but klein wont even have the balls to explicate the implicit castigation of kirk that dowd exhibited. klein is, if anything, a catastrophist who sees the progressive order of his vox days breaking down internally and instead of progressivism drifting towards his chosen island of centrist stability he is finding that the new island he calls home is itself fracturing. there was a email leak at one point that showed klein did have balls to say mean words, so maybe in the background klien and proximates like shor are screaming "dont you all see how fucking bad this is for us"
Doubletree3
2d ago
I don't think there was any indication the attacker was a conservative who hated them for being liberal.
I think you should go back and reacquaint yourself of the details of this case because there is ample evidence that he was both a right winger and targeted the Pelosis because they were Democrats.
DePape answers, "Absolutely." He grows increasingly angry and emotional, claiming that Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats committed crimes to steal the election from Donald Trump. Then, Depape says, "I was going to hold her hostage and get her to tell the truth. If she didn't tell the truth, I'd break her kneecaps."
FtttG
2d ago
From the Irish perspective, all my normie colleagues in work (one of whom is a liberal Canadian expat) are saying he had it coming. I expect there'll be a lot of tongue-biting today.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
That Tree of Liberty looks rather dried-up by now. My guess as a foreigner is it never could survive in a country that no longer had a frontier to push. By now I doubt there's any amount of blood sufficient to revivify it.
functor
2d ago
The US elite has effectively decided that you are getting a mass surveillance state, wars in the middle east and outrageously expensive medical care regardless of who you vote for. The US political establishment is far more loyal to their donors than their constituents.
The Second Amendment is not about hunting and burglars, it is about defence against the state. Clearly the US establishment has overstepped their bounds far beyond what the founding fathers would have considered reasonable for a Second Amendment solution. Had they known about the level of mass surveillance or the current level of taxation they would most definitely supported a Second Amendment solution.
MadMonzer
Epstein Files must have done something really awful for so many libs to want him released.
2d ago
You're right that we don't know who the killer is or what the motive is. But you have to deliberately ignorant to not think an assassination at an open political event is not political motivated. This is not a passion killing. This is pre-meditated and cold and deliberate. If it was something like a personal grudge, wouldn't you rather shoot someone in a quiet place, such as at night? Why would you choose to assassinate someone in a place where there are thousands of people that could potentially spot you and stop you, unless there was some kind of goal in making a statement?
You could have said the same things about the Trump shooting, and many people did. But it turned out that the shooter was a disgruntled Red Triber with no discernable political motive.
You want to believe that "they" are engaged in a pattern of political violence, and you want it enough not to wait for confirmation where there is an obvious alternative theory that turned out to be correct last time. Why do you want to believe this? The world where the people who shoot politicians are crazies is a better, safer, happier one.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
FWIW, the left also used to be constantly looking for excuses to start the revolution, where if not here when if not now. This has admittedly faded in the last decades as the left attained mainstream cultural dominance and seemed to no longer need drastic revolution to achieve its goals, but I suppose with their recent setbacks and the general heating-up of the world and the Right growing louder, we're getting back there. Polarization leading to political violence is, as far as a quick look at history tells me, the rather natural course of things. It will either continue to simmer until the underlying causes are obviated by the changing times, or escalate until one side destroys the other. But nobody will turn back the clock. We won't - neither the Americans nor us Europeans - find our way back to some more cooperative state of affairs in which we sudddenly realize that the guys on the other side want the same thing and the whole conflict is just an unfortunate mistake. The 20th century has taught us enough, I think, about ideological conflict resolution. The nazis didn't give up after realizing that actually, there was a reasonable compromise to be made with their neighbors. The soviets didn't release their vassal states because of successful arguments in favor of national independence. China didn't moderate its communism until several generations after eradicating all opposition.
I am, as usual, not saying that this is a good or a desirable thing. Instead, doomsaying. Things will either remain bad for a long time until civilization itself changes, or get worse until dramatic and destructive things happen. I don't think the threshold for the latter has been passed by now, or that it will be soon - there's still a lot of endurable bad times between now and then. And maybe if we manage to endure for long enough, we'lll all be dead of old age and hitherto unborn generations can open up entirely new lines of conflict that make them forget about ours.
All of those are indeed weak evidence that he was Red-aligned, which was why at the time I bet he was actually Red-aligned. But then I actually read what he'd been writing and posting shortly before the attack, and what some of his colleagues reported of his actions, and that gave much, much stronger evidence that he was in fact just insane.
They caught him alive, IIRC, they have all his devices and all his possessions. If someone can point to any actual evidence that his attacks were motivated by anything resembling red-tribe political ideology, I will be happy to count him as a Red-aligned ideological killer.
Over the years, Boelter would reach out with what appeared to be exponentially ambitious endeavors, Kalech said: "What he wanted to take on, I think, might have been bigger." Boelter wanted to end American hunger, according to another project's PowerPoint. And while the idea would require massive changes to current laws and food regulation, it appeared Boelter dismissed that as surmountable if only elected officials could get on board. "American Hunger isn't a food availability problem," the presentation said. "American Hunger is a tool that has been used to manipulate and control a vast number of American's [sic], with the highest percentage being people of color. This tool can and should be broken now, and failure to do so will be seen as intentional criminal negligence by future generations. We should be embarrassed as a nation that we let this happen and have not correctly [sic] this injustice 100 years ago," one slide said. One slide described how his own lived experience informed his idea, referring to him in the third person: "several times in his life Vance Boelter was the first person on the scene of very bad head on car accidents," and that he was able to help "without fear of doing something wrong" because he was "protected" by Good Samaritan law – which could and should be applied to food waste, the slide said....
To keep an eye on which lawmakers supported the necessary legislation, "there needs to be a tracking mechanism," the presentation said, where citizens could "see listed every singe [sic] elected official and where they stand on the Law (Food Providers Good Samaritan Law)." "Those few that come out and try to convince people that it is better to destroy food than to give it away free to people, will be quickly seen for who they are. Food Slavers that have profited off the hunger of people for years," the 18-slide, nearly 2,000-word presentation said.
You tell me how this sounds like a Red Tribe grievance.
@Skibboleth is flaming out because he is a die-hard partisan whose goal is to pretend to be reasonable, and his side is having a very bad week. We actually discussed the Waltz shooting at some length at the time, including considerable speculation about motives. The shooting happened in the middle of the night and IIRC by the next afternoon they caught the guy and had established that he was legitimately crazy, so the conversation died out. The arguments he is presenting above are specious, but he puffs up big, neglects the detail and shouts in outrage, so mostly people don't notice.
What we are seeing now is legitimately way, way worse than the Minnesota shootings. We have video of people in the crowd jumping and screaming for joy within seconds of the bullet's impact. the entire left-wing internet is either openly celebrating his murder or feigning smug disinterest.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
the lefties celebrating his death
Is there a significant number of those? I mean, of course there must be, polarization and all. Let me rephrase that - are there really many leftists publicly stating that this is a good thing?
Historically the good cop, bad cop approach seems to have had success in some contexts. South Africa had Nelson Mandela preaching peace and tolerance, while his wife cheered on the practice of necklacing alleged informants, and her security detail carried out kidnappings, torture, and murders. There was a less extreme dynamic in the civil rights movement, with MLK positioning himself as the reasonable alternative to violent radicals like the Black Panthers. People mostly want peace and stability, so the idea of compromising with moderates can be appealing given the alternative. Of course that depends on the moderates having a palatable message, and support from elites and the media.
Of course this doesn't always work out and sometimes results in violent suppression of the entire movement, including both the moderate and radical elements. The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka are likely a good example, with the situation evolving from a political campaign, into an insurgency, and finally a full-blown civil war.
Bingbong
2d ago
Yes the unhinged guy was deliberately gathering the literature of opposing parties in order to confuse potential biographers. AFAIK the main thing anybody associated was pro-Life, but not being on board with idpol doesn't necessarily inform the whole political thing.
His justification was that God Emperor Tim Walz called him and told him to take lives in his honor.
FistfullOfCrows
2d ago
Ethan Klein
I can not even begin to describe the level of hatred I have for Ethan Klein, why did the fates decide it was Charlie Kirk's time instead of Ethan Klein.
plural
2d ago
How, specifically?
from the wiki:
Boelter claimed to have military training and a career in private security
His anti-abortion views are considered a possible motive.
Boelter was registered to vote in Oklahoma as a Republican for the 2004 United States presidential election
Boelter's wife told investigators their family "prepared for major or catastrophic incidents"
He's also a white guy that was wearing a cowboy hat in CCTV footage.
These all track right wing to me. There's a ton of confounders to this, yeah, which is why even his affiliation was muddy. But in situations like these affiliation is being used as an assumed motivation most of the time. I don't think that's true but I was just trying to meet Skibboleth halfway to try to maintain decorum since the post was mostly just pure seething.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
That's not a celebration.
Bingbong
2d ago
I just think trying to parallel the two is asinine. The whole legislators story barely even lasted in the news since it wasn't compelling enough once they figured out the shooter was more of a crazy person and nobody particularly cared about the victims enough to generate that level of notability.
FistfullOfCrows
2d ago
Could this be a glowie op to create a Conservative/Christian martyr? What for, you might ask. Evangelicals are some of the hardest supporters of Zionism, so if they can get them fired up and optionally convert some more they would get what they wanted and some more wars in the middle east.
ToaKraka
Dislikes you
2d ago
There's apparently a video going around of the attack, but I haven't a desire to see it.
Mildly interesting article from the Associated Press: Graphic video of Kirk shooting was everywhere online, showing how media gatekeeper role has changed (original title "Graphic Charlie Kirk video spread fast, showing media’s fading grip")
Traditional news organizations were cautious in their midafternoon coverage of Charlie Kirk’s assassination Wednesday not to depict the moment he was shot, instead showing video of him tossing a hat to his audience moments before, and panicked onlookers scattering wildly in the moments after.
In practical terms, though, it mattered little. Gory video of the shooting was available almost instantly online, from several angles, in slow-motion and real-time speed. Millions of people watched.
On X, there was a video showing a direct view of Kirk being shot, his body recoiling and blood gushing from a wound. One video was a loop showing the moment of impact in slow-motion, stopping before blood is seen. Another, taken from Kirk’s left, included audio that suggested Kirk was talking about gun violence at the moment he was shot.
For more than 150 years, news organizations like newspapers and television networks have long been accustomed to “gatekeeping” when it comes to explicit content—making editorial decisions around violent events to decide what images and words appear on their platforms for their readers or viewers. But in the fragmented era of social media, smartphones and instant video uploads, editorial decisions by legacy media are less impactful than ever.
Across the country in Ithaca, New York, college professor Sarah Kreps’ teenage sons texted her about Kirk’s assassination shortly after school was dismissed and they could access their phones.
No, she told them. He was shot, but there were no reports that he had died. Her son answered: Have you seen the video? There’s no way he could have survived that.
vorpa-glavo
2d ago
Yeah, saw several Tumblr reactions today, and while it is perfectly predictable, I'm saddened how many people are celebrating political violence against a non-politician on there. There's a lot of people who don't have any sense of decorum, or respect for people with opposing viewpoints.
benmmurphy
2d ago
Kirk bit the bullet and acknowledged his preferred policy option had a drawback and the internet mercilessly bullied him after he was murdered. Almost all policy options have some drawback but a lot of advocates will not acknowledge this and will not try and defend the tradeoff. Policy options that have no tradeoffs are presumably rare because such a policy would be very popular and so presumably would already be implemented. People acknowledging drawbacks is something the rationalist space should be getting behind but it wouldn't surprise me if part of that community were needling Kirk as well.
Does Klein even have relevance? I honestly dont know if any eceleb outside of titty streamers would gather enough people to care about even harming them. Hasan kicked out Klein for failing to slob Hamas knob, and Hasans relevance is only within that circle of DSA revolutionary cosplayers who hope for someone else to pull the trigger (like whoever did to kirk) so that the dirty work of clearing the way for the chosen vanguard is done without sullying their hyperallergic hands.
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