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Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Here's what TitaniumButterfly said:

women don't want to be forced to spend nine months pregnant

Then it sounds like either they're specifically upset about the extremely rare cases of rape leading to pregnancy, or else they have an accountability problem.

I've reported his comment and yours for mischaracterization and strawmanning.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Child support payments are part of modernity, not social conservatism

Those two are not antonyms. Contemporary American Social conservatism perceives itself as being "timeless" "common sense morality," but it's very modern. Imagine trying to convince your 1800s great great grandmother that a fertilized egg that's barely visible to the naked eye is a "baby" or "person." It's something social conservatives believe they've logicked themselves into, much like leftists believe they've logicked themselves into "trans women are women!" I'm skeptical either "really" believes it, deep down.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Imagine trying to convince my 1800s great great grandmother that my great grandmother, who just kicked her from the inside, was not a baby.

Would be difficult. Fortunately nobody not made of straw would need to. All pro-choicers say is that if she wants an abortion she can get one.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

That was me, and as we discussed at the time that's a horrendously inaccurate and uncharitable take on what I was saying.

Anyone can click through and see what you said.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Obviously the market is distorted by access to illegal labor, as much as a market would be distorted if people were allowed to own slaves.

This reminds me of the "libertarian" on Twitter who thought "the government opening the border" was "statism."

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

I feel like this discussion is the missing ingredient to lots of the topics du jour. Let's take the leftward drift of young women- well social conservatism today seems to have, uh, not discussed what other people owe to them, only what they owe to other people.

Yep. There was a commenter here who said women lacked "accountability" because they want to be able to f*** without risking being pregnant for nine months. I'm going to hazard a guess that that message won't be a particularly popular one among young women, as like with most voters they prefer politicians who will make their lives easier rather than harder.

That said, one should be wary of parts of the gender-divide narrative. Trump's performance among white men was actually worse in 2024 than in 2016, while his performance among white women improved. CNN exit polls confirm the same phenomenon.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Why is a Mexican meatpacker hired over the American one?

Why are you beating your wife?

My whole contention here is that illegals are doing that work because both illegals and Americans do not want to do it but only the latter have the skills to do better jobs.

An American worker cannot compete with a Mexican agricultural worker for the same reason he can't compete with a Chinese industrial factory worker

Odd, then, that American workers make far more money than Chinese industrial factory workers or Mexican agricultural workers on either side of the border.

It's the woke left vs the woke right. The woke left demands affirmative action for blacks so they can work in business, law, medicine, and government. Envy is felt toward whites for their higher-paying and better jobs. "The test is culturally biased!" The woke right demands set-aside jobs for Americans so they can pick fruit in the summer sun, being envious of illegal aliens for some reason.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Sewing bras is more conducive to wellbeing than stacking them on a shelf.

Then buy yourself a sewing machine. We shouldn't make national policy choices based on psychological theories like that.

In what world would “picking fruit” be pathetic? I think you are having trouble dissociating the image you have of these things now, with what they would look like if employers didn’t have a semi-slave class. There’s a farm near me where people — college-educated, white, smart — sign up to plant and reap for free. Because in return they get free room and board, and most importantly a social environment filled with other young white people. They work quite hard, then they drink in the evenings and dance and fuck and make music and so on. This is exactly what agricultural work was for nearly all of history.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Social conservatives in America decided to make that the centerpiece of their political project and then get mad when I bring it up in response to a thread about social conservatism in America.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

So your answer to the question of how White Americans can compete with semi-slave illegal workers is

Why in God's name would you want to?

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

A lot of pro choicers also call it a “clump of cells,” not a baby.

A "clump of cells" can't kick its mother.

otherwise this false on the face of it.

Then give me an example of a pro-choicer telling a woman the late-term baby she wants to give birth to is a clump of cells, not a baby. Shouldn't be difficult if this is something they really say.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

slaves beat out sharecroppers

Assumes facts not in evidence.

You can tell yourself that we're all chuds

Not chuds. White collar guys, but IMO you've melted your brain with a political ideology that is all about justifying, sanewashing, and whataboutisming the views of the catturds of the world, in a parallel to how middle-class wokes justify, sanewash, and whatabout the dysfunction of the underclass.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

You've distorted his claim that women should be accountable just like everyone else to imply that he says that only women need to be held accountable

No I didn't.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

If you're going to get a tattoo make it a commitment to an actual lifestyle or longterm bond. I'll respect the signalling of MS13 or Yakuza membership over random pop culture shit.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Turok makes the mistake of then coming to this forum of actual thoughtful people and assuming the conservatives here need to answer for the worst Trumpists the engineers of X can serve. The conservatives here don't recognize themselves in the criticisms he levels at them and drama ensues.

I am not a newcomer to the SSC sphere, I've been posting on ACX and DSL for years, and I've won DSL's Diadochus award for my posts twice. (I'm also currently banned from both places.) I'm not attributing the stupidity of Twitter to this place, I'm just reading what people here write, like coffee_enjoyer:

Sewing bras is more conducive to wellbeing than stacking them on a shelf. Picking fruit is so Edenic that it’s the first recorded activity of humanity. In what world would “picking fruit” be pathetic? I think you are having trouble dissociating the image you have of these things now, with what they would look like if employers didn’t have a semi-slave class. There’s a farm near me where people — college-educated, white, smart — sign up to plant and reap for free. Because in return they get free room and board, and most importantly a social environment filled with other young white people. They work quite hard, then they drink in the evenings and dance and fuck and make music and so on. This is exactly what agricultural work was for nearly all of history. Not for the slaves, of course, but for the non-enslaved.

This, by the way, is what I mean by "poverty fetishism" and "third worldism."

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Have you listened to MartyrMade's series on Epstein? I used to like his stuff a lot, but he's gone off the deep end recently when it comes to Israel and Jews.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Head-to-toe tattoos and piercings signal massive nonconformity with social norms

Not really any more. Just like beards, they used to be non-conformist now they're common enough.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Further, these people mostly aren't the MAGA right, and the Trump Administration cannot be said to speak for them.

Yeah, that's exactly the crux of the issue. Lots of these people have claimed that some Trump move - bombing Iran, not releasing the Epstein client list, granting amnesty to farmers - will irrevocably sunder the Trump coalition and that their position is the true MAGA position and anything else would be a betrayal to the voters, but I think MAGA is whatever Trump says it is.

If Trump announced some kind of amnesty for farm workers, that would be MAGA. If Trump announced that "mass deportations" never meant every single illegal, that would also be MAGA.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

About those nurses, apparently they get tattoos to help manage their “trauma” which is presumably excreted from an organ somewhere within their bodies.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

I'm not debating whether Hoss was tortured.

I'm pointing out his gave a consistent account for a long time after that. Weird that his torturers allowed him to claim he had been tortured, but were able to force him to never recant his overall narrative.

Did you even skim the source I provided that discussed corroboration? Are you just gonna ignore the sources I provide and questions I pose and whine whine whine about how it's the mainstream that's incapable of engaging with reality?

But as I've already explained, the biggest problem of all is the lack of corroboration of these claims in the body of documentary or physical evidence.

What's funny is that when I provide such corroboration, or ask harder questions for you than you can ask of me, you seem to ignore it.

Were the camps merely for labor? If so, why destroy and bury them?

How would you expect the Nazis to conduct a secret operation and cover up?

This is funny, the tiles did not match witness accounts and the manufacturers logo would have been installed facing the structure, not installed with the logo facing outwards.

That's not what my sources say. Do you have better ones?

Why was the facility buried?

They claim 800,000 people were killed at the location they "investigate" but instead of excavating mass graves they find a clay tile and claim they have proven everything, while demonstrating their eagerness to overfit on the data by falsely interpreting a manufacturer's logo.

Well, as you love to point out, they haven't been allowed to do a full excavation. They found evidence of structures that matched accounts of the gas chambers and found tiles when they dug. What level of excavation would make you happy?

Revisionists claim that there were real sanitary facilities constructed in Treblinka II. This is supported by budget documents which explicitly have a line item for sanitation facilities to be constructed in TII. So a clay tile is also consistent with the Revisionist theory that this camp featured real sanitation facilities that were falsely claimed to be homicidal gas chambers.

Ok, so then why did the Nazis destroy and bury the structures? Do you expect the Nazis to be retarded enough to put: "Fake Sanitary Facility Actually Intended As A Means Of Mass Execution" in the budget documents? What level of evidence is actually reasonable to expect?

One funny anecdote from Colls scientific excavation is that she found a fossilized shark teeth from when Poland was a seabed millions of years ago! But if the cremated remains of 900,000 people were on that site, and each victim had an average of say 28 teeth, there would be over 25 million human teeth buried in this small area where she found fossilized shark teeth.

Not sure what your issue is. The human bones were ground up. The soil was disturbed/tilled, so a fossil could have been in the mix. If the shark tooth was so damning, you'd think that would have been covered up so clever Revisionists like you couldn't use it.

People believe the Holocaust narrative because of the media transmitted in popular culture and what they are told in school.

Did the media write Mein Kampf? Did it write the speeches Hitler made? Did it compile lists of Jews, make them wear stars, tattoo ID numbers on them, and put them into ghettos and camps?

Yes, the Holocuast is used to force guilt onto gentiles and subsequent "compensation" in various forms. But it's based on a lie.

Does any part of your mind wince a little bit when you notice that you can't stop focusing on the alleged gassing inconsistencies, and you fail to engage with what on earth were the Nazis up to with the Jews and where several million of them ended up? Do you cringe at all when you have to consider that the Nazis operated in a secretive manner with a cover up to hide and destroy evidence, such that imperfect evidence is what would be expected?

The "Final Solution" was the deportation of the Jews to Palestine, Madagascar, or territory in what was supposed to be conquered Russian territory.

Wait, the Nazis were supposed to be shipping the Jews out??? WOW WHAT A GIANT MISUNDERSTANDING THIS ALL IS.

Is that what Hitler meant by "annihilation"?

But the biggest question remains: WHERE DID THE MILLIONS OF JEWS END UP THEN??????????

Again, the biggest tell here is that you simply can't deal with the overarching facts that the Nazis hated the Jews, rounded them up, and then millions of them no longer existed. (The fact you haven't even tried to contend with this rather significant issue is pretty interesting. You have all kinds of ideas and sources re: Hoss and gas chambers and human remains, but not for Jewish population statistics apparently.)

You've also not addressed the false claims you've made about the COMINT/intercepts not having any evidence of the Holocaust. Do you see why people have a hard time respecting your views and the claim that actually you're just a no-nonsense realist concerned only with the truth?

So to sum up where I think we're at:

  • Europe has a long history of negative beliefs towards and violence against the Jews
  • Hitler wrote a popular book in 1925 that was highly critical of the Jews as significant problem
  • The Nazis in general were highly concerned with identifying and controlling Jews in both rhetoric and action, before and during WWII
  • Hitler "prophesied" a number of times about "the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe" and called them "enemies of the people"
  • Hitler gave a speech to his senior leaders in late 1941 that led Goebbels to record in his diary: "Regarding the Jewish question, the Führer has decided to make a clean sweep. He prophesied to the Jews that, if they yet again brought about a world war, they would experience their own annihilation. That was not just a phrase. The world war is here, the annihilation of the Jews must be the necessary consequence."
  • The Nazis had a "Final Solution" for the Jewish Problem
  • The Nazis systematically rounded up a lot of Jews and put them into camps
  • There is clear evidence the Nazis tried to destroy/bury several of these camps, particularly towards the end of the war when the tide had turned - The "Final Solution" was the deportation of the Jews to Palestine, Madagascar, or territory in what was supposed to be conquered Russian territory
  • ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
  • The pre-war and post-war Jewish population of Europe, particularly Poland, has a gap of several million Jews

Where did the millions of Jews go?

Yes, the Holocuast is used to force guilt onto gentiles and subsequent "compensation" in various forms. But it's based on a lie.

Ah, is that why people hate the Jews so much? When they suffer, they deserve it, of course. But when they don't suffer sufficiently they have to lie about it?

Here's a joke I just came up with:

A Holocaust Revisionist dies and goes to Valhalla. He gets to meet Hitler. The Revisionist says, "I tried my best to combat the lies they tell about you trying to exterminate the Jews." Hitler responds, "Well thank you; we tried our best, but I'll always regret we didn't fully annihilate those bloodsuckers."
"Oh no, the Zionist propagandists got you too," cried the Revisionist.

I'll have to workshop it a bit.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

As far as I can tell, TACO is somewhat responsible, but also, average US tariff rates are just over 50% on Chinese goods?

It seems fairly plausible that TACO/other delays in tariff implementation are substantially responsible. The "Liberation Day" tariffs weren't just a hike on (already high) tariffs on China - they were (supposed to be) a sweeping set of tariffs applying to basically everyone. China is a big trading partner, but it's still only ("only") a little over 10% of US imports. A moderate-to-high increase in the price of Chinese imports is not going to single-handed crash the US economy (especially since I expect re-exportation and other means of evasion to mitigate it to some degree), and given existing stocks and possible mitigation strategies, major impacts might be quite delayed.

On the other hand, if the April 2nd tariffs had gone into effect quickly, we'd likely be looking at a very different state of affairs.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

We also dislike people declaring they have reported someone. "I'm telling on you!" is not any more effective or impressive here than it was in kindergarten. What is that supposed to accomplish? Put extra pressure on the mods? We can see your report. Submit your report and move on.

Apologies then, I will not do this in the future.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

Also sounds more like a stalker who followed her during periods of activity and went inactive when she was inactive? There's a lot of crazy people out there, someone obsessed with Ghislaine Maxwell who persuaded themselves into a fantasy life version of her (see the movie Single White Female for a fictional version of this) isn't the most implausible thing.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

You probably mean minima.

No.

this is a.. novel definition

I suppose Jacques Ellul only died 30 years ago. But I would have expected everyone here to be long familiar with this ancient history given we discuss the philosophical implications of AI on the daily.

Care to reproduce such arguments in full instead of waving at them?

Of course.

The section on medicine as a human technique is of course most relevant to this conversation, but I don't recommend skipping around if you are unfamiliar with philosophy of technology and the associated jargon.

Are you typing this on a "simple" device?

No. Semiconductors are arguably the most complex things mankind has ever made. Especially using this definition.

They could, in an ideal world, live short but tortured lives! Is that a tautology?

No, it's a non sequitur.

You seem to conveniently enjoy that particular fruit of modernity, while crying about this one.

I'm not sure what part of my writing evoked any kind of detectable emotion. I assure you it is purely analytic. I'm critical of modernity whilst living in it. What else could be reasonable?

Call me an ungrateful atheist for living in creation if you must. I can't help but look at what I'm doing.

Addiction is a neuropsychological disorder

So I was indeed right to believe you take the DSM-V to have the power to decide the meaning of a word that has existed since the 1500s.

I think the fact that you'd take Wikipedia's word over that of Oxford reflects poorly on your conception of the world, frankly. But this is a silly semantics exercise anyways. I have clarified what I meant beyond doubt. If my vocabulary irks you, so be it.

by that definition, one could be addicted to collecting stamps, to morning walks, or to breathing. You have diluted the word to uselessness.

No, I've used in in a way you don't like, which is common and in accord with its historical usage. There is a difference.

I have no "authority" over you

You misunderstand. It is the expert authority on your own language and thinking I recommend you remedy, not your authority on me.

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 7, 2025

I was confusing tomatoes with other fruit-picking where there is a machine to scoop them up:

For example: https://x.com/TechInsider/status/1271322529362132994

I think that farmers (and businesses generally) are lazy and don't behave economically efficiently. It's creative destruction that raises efficiency, slowly and painfully. The British were notorious for not upgrading their machinery in the steel industry, you had steel chambers for early nuclear plants being forged in blast chambers designed for producing dreadnought armour, 40 years old. Or using gear they got from germany as war reparations from WW1 even in the 1960s and early 1970s! So the British steel industry got razed. It's basically gone. The German steel industry is going too but they did reap some counterintuitive gains from the wartime destruction meaning they had to rebuild and get leaner and smarter.

Capital investment and R&D is always good in my book.