This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The admin shouldn't worry about the hardcore Democrats who weren't going to vote red anyway. The admin also shouldn't be worrying about trying to appeal to the hardcore GOP base who is going to vote regardless.
The people who matter are the moderates and centrists who make up an increasing number of independent identified voters. Elections are very close, look at the swing states and just how few percentages of voters needed to have shifted for a dem win instead in 2024. Pennsylvania needed only .85% of voters who voted for Trump to instead go for Harris for instance.
That's right, if you piss off less than a percentage of voters then you could lose the state instead of win. And as Nate Silver points out Trump is losing the normies on immigration. The normies and independents don't want violent criminals in the country and you win them on the topic if you handle that. But they don't have much of an issue with Maria the house cleaner, Jose the roofer, and the nice abuela across the street. And if you go after Maria, Jose and the abuela, they'll sour on you as we're seeing now. And they might not like disruptive protests too much, but they also don't like the feds beating up and shooting people either.
This site is filled with overly online internet addicts fetishizing over some sort of race war roleplay, while the average normie voter is way more moderate. They want low prices, they want good jobs, and they don't want to see a bunch of scary violence. There's a reason why Trump with his better political instincts is pivoting away after this fiasco, because he knows seeing a bunch of masked agents shooting people is scary and a bad look.
If your point is that the median voter is a spinless fool devoid of coherent political philosophy, who simultaneously wants more gibmes and lower taxes, who reads headlines and tweets to form every opinion.... then yeah, I agree with you.
I even think that, as a pragmatic measure, Trump backing down on this gives him enough time to save face before the next election, maybe even midterms!
It should be more normal to be averse to violence than it is today. But it's sick that a 30-second clip of gunfire is what's being force-fed down the gullets of the ducks being fattened for slaughter, not the endless hours of shitty rioters blanketing Minnesota.
More options
Context Copy link
I wasn't going to say anything, but you're the one who called me a Nazi, and I want to get ahead of your pedantry and say that you pretending to be a moderate is a pretense no one believes. Your condescending argument is an insincere tactic. You would never make an appeal to moderation for any of the left's sacred cows.
And then you insult the users of the Motte. You really saying that the people around here are worse than Reddit? Than Facebook? Than X, than 4chan? Where is this mythical bar of virtue that we fall short of? Aren't you in this picture, Mr. Calls Other People Nazis? Aren't you equally shitting up discourse?
Get off your high horse, man.
Lol nice try dude, it was you who essentially called yourself a Nazi with the quote
And I was asking you if you were serious about calling yourself a Nazi
Because obviously I don't expect random sane people to be doing that.
It doesn't even matter if I was or not, you're not gonna change what the polls are showing. The normies are turning on Trump's agenda.
Not only did I never say the people here are "worse" than any other site, but this comparison wouldn't make sense to begin with. Those sites are large with millions of users, overarching statements about them don't make much sense.
Basically everyone uses Facebook in some capacity, from the retarded 80 IQ criminals to stuff like 140 IQ doctors, rocket scientists, and programmers. How could I rank them much at all then? Your experience on X, Facebook, Instagram, etc depends almost entirely on what communities you hang out in and talk with.
I will quote Amadan:
And you still don't seem to understand that. Nothing has changed. I know you're coping and seething and still calling everyone that disagrees with you a Nazi. I bring it up just in case anyone accidentally takes you seriously.
Most normal non Nazi people do not say that being a Nazi is a reasonable thing to them because most normal non Nazis do not think the Nazis were reasonable.
Regardless, I clearly did not say that you were a Nazi, I was asking if you were because [refer back to the first sentence].
"Source: I made it up" Considering you can't actually even point to a time I called you a Nazi, it's exceptionally weird to make this unproven claim that you "know" it.
I will quote you directly. The passive voice does not exonerate you. Your continued shamelessness in the face of your own words only proves my point.
It’s not that egregious IMO, not like you would see Nazi accusations on Reddit. It was just sort of a glib or snarky response to your comment. It didn’t seem overly serious
"Ha ha, I was only calling you a Nazi as a joke!"
Oh, so it's okay to joke about Nazis now. I will keep this in mind.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Is he? I haven't seen any sign of this, it seems like he's doubling down. He certainly has good political instincts, but he doesn't have to worry about politics anymore. I seriously doubt he cares about what happens to the republican party after he's retired.
Greg Bovino is reportedly out. I hate to let the agitators get away with a win, but Bovino really botched the messaging after the Pretti shooting.
I'm not sure that's a climbdown. Historically, Trump has reshuffled personnel during major actions as people fail/prove themselves (that's how Bessent got to his position of power within the admin), and he's simultaneously sending in Tom Homan. We'll see.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link