site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   25918 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 16, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

When I talk about "wokeness", I'm referring to a worldview and set of tactics as described in, for example, Freddie deBoer's canonical article on the topic:

  1. Explicit endorsement of standpoint epistemology.
  2. Social destruction for petty ideological infractions, resulting in circular firing squads.
  3. Ideological infractions couched in abstruse vocabulary impenetrable to those not in the know.
  4. A fundamental failure to understand the is-ought distinction.
  5. A worldview which, taken to its logical conclusions, implies that "everything is problematic" and "almost everyone you encounter in contemporary society is a bad person".
  6. A fatalistic belief that the problems facing our society are so deeply entrenched as to be essentially impervious to resolution or amelioration: political Calvinism.
  7. A corollary to the previous point is that woke people react with hostility to the suggestion that certain of their pet issues have been meaningfully improved or ameliorated.
  8. An obsessive fixation on linguistic minutiae ("people experiencing unhousedness" vs. "homeless people") over issues of material, practical significance.

I am not referring to the existence of male people who wear women's clothes, or people who live in small towns who dress in a peculiar fashion and listen to Bladee.

I think when most people express a sentiment like "wokeness is dead", they mean that the ideas and tactics associated with the woke memeplex have much less cachet and influence than they did at their peak (2014-2022). I don't think they mean "no one wears cross-sex clothes anymore". A minority of people have been wearing cross-sex clothing for centuries before the word "woke" was even coined. So I truthfully don't understand the connection between the statements "wokeness isn't dead – here are a bunch of people who dress oddly". They seem completely uncorrelated to me. I'd even hazard a guess that plenty of these so-called "dinergoths" are not meaningfully "woke" in an ideological sense.

You are motte and baily-ing "Woke".

Much like when Charlie Kirk said "DEI", every comedian started foaming at the mouth, their pen setting their pad aflame, dude playing burning piano on the beach meme, "Those DEIs need to use different drinking fountains, DEIs in paris, DEI DEI DEI DEI DEI DEI DEI, I'm 200% DEI" before jizzing themselves unconscious.

Much like DEI means DEI but it also means Naggers but with a different vowel, Woke means the set of principles and tactics outlined above, but also anything that makes a someone with Chud aesthetic principles feel a little uncomfortable. "This person is not presenting gender in a way I like so my tummy hurt, therefore woke" type shit.

Much like the woke fucked up getting to call people they don't like racist and the Zionist lobby is currently fucking up getting to call people they don't like antisemites, Woke is either fully fucked or in the terminal stage of fucked.

Pretty soon all that fire and brimstone is gonna turn into your grandpa getting all het up about men wearing belts to church instead of braces; what barberism.

I don't know why but three leading much likes for three by three analogous statements pleases my brainstem.

but also anything that makes a someone with Chud aesthetic principles feel a little uncomfortable. "This person is not presenting gender in a way I like so my tummy hurt, therefore woke" type shit.

My partner's extensive strap-on collection says "not really?" Some people are always merely dense.

Pretty soon all that fire and brimstone is gonna turn into your grandpa getting all het up about men wearing belts to church instead of braces; what barberism.

And some of them are even trimming their beards during services!

Just for that, I'm editing it to berberism; they can be whipping up delicious tajins in the pews.

Well, I explicitly said "When I talk about "wokeness...". I'm aware that other people use the word in a different way, sometimes in a manner indistinguishable from how their parents would derisively call things "liberal". But I think my usage is closer to the standard usage than that one.

I don't know why but three leading much likes for three by three analogous statements pleases my brainstem.

What?

What?

I wrote the comment in a weird way to maintain symmetry.

Well, I explicitly said "When I talk about "wokeness..."

Yeah, I probably should have led off with a "People in general" instead of a "You" on the response comment.

Might just be my social circle, but I have solely heard Woke in the Wild being used as a catch all for shit like "This restaurant advertises itself as cruelty free".

They seem completely uncorrelated to me. I'd even hazard a guess that plenty of these so-called "dinergoths" are not meaningfully "woke" in an ideological sense.

As someone pointed out elsewhere "dinergoth" is not a term they coined themselves so is a bit of an awkward fit (though again: Freddie's point). The self-chosen term is probably usually queer in a generic sense rather than Truly Activist sense, which sometimes overlaps with woke but isn't interchangeable.

In my extremely limited experience of people that might fit the archetype to the extent it even is an archetype, it's more like 2020's version of emo or scene, it's an aesthetic with a few shared hobbies and fairly minimal ideological components.

No, you don't undesrtand. The problem of wokeness facing our society is so deeply entrenched as to be essentially impervious to resolution or amelioration. You surely cannot believe that wokeness has been meaningfully improved or ameliorated. In a sense, almost everyone you encounter in contemporary society has adopted woke narratives in some way.

Superb execution of Poe's Law.

Not sure if satire or serious...

Why would you take that to be satire?

At face value, it seems correct.

Well, because he uses the exact same language in the higher level post, lol.

Yes, thought that the direct connection made the satire obvious.

Not satire enough to not be seriously true.

Hence the (largely rhetorical) question. Imagine that Futurama meme on top.

Germans do not know humor or pop culture. We lack the enzymes.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats