Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 225
- 2
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
What is something that you completely can not understand why it exists?
From time to to time I notice something and I am like wow there is a market for this.
One big one for me has always been Starbucks. I can not imagine paying their prices for coffee. And I generally want a coffee within the first 15 minutes of waking up so the idea of putting on clothing and going to a coffee store everyday seems both a huge waste of time and money.
So for the most part I can’t understand the volume of business at coffee stores.
While I disdain Starbucks, I frequent local espresso shops and order all kinds of girly drinks. It's tasty, it's fun, it's something I can't entirely recreate at home, it's a fun outing with Mrs. FiveHour or by myself with a laptop to sit for a few hours. I don't think I could go every day, but on the scale of indulgences, I find it perfectly fine.
But I can't understand:
-- Lifted pickup trucks. Nobody drives off-road. Nobody. It's not a real thing people do at the scale where you would need any kind of rig to do it beyond a Subaru Outback with good tires. But I can't go anywhere without seeing trucks that have been lifted to the point where they handle like hell, at a cost of thousands of dollars.
-- The vast majority of DoorDash traffic. I understand the value when one is three sheets to the wind, or ill, or whatever and getting food delivered becomes more valuable. I don't understand how it accounts for such a large share of orders that it's a huge element in the service economy. I'd think the average person would order delivery once a month or less, it appears to be much more than that.
-- Cruises. The whole set-up seems wildly unpleasant, particularly if I'm going to have spend my time on a boat cooped up with other people who wanted to go on a cruise.
We don't own a car so if we want to stay in and not cook we turn to it once or twice a week. It's roughly as expensive as going out to eat which is another thing we do quite often. It's definitely not frugal but surely the convenience should explain the appeal even if you wouldn't want to pay that mcuh.
More options
Context Copy link
Wow we have the exact same tastes I don't even need to write my comment. I wouldn't have put lifted pickups (but they are dumb) but delivery when you live in a downtown city and cruises were my first two answers
More options
Context Copy link
My extended family has a lifted pickup that we all sort of pass around. I think it's in my cousin's name. Literally the only thing we use it for is to go up on the Land. Other than a few bike trails that I've cut, it's completely unimproved. It wasn't lifted until the stream washed out - at that point it was either a build a bridge, lift the truck, or add a snorkel.
The use case for something like that is very small, and the brand new lifted trucks confuse the hell out of me.
More options
Context Copy link
The widely accepted theory is that it's to compensate for a small penis.
More and more men have been getting exposed to pornography in their formative years, causing them to view their own average penises as inadequate and to buy a larger, lifted truck to compensate.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I drive off-road, and my pickup has the pinstriping from scratchy brush to prove it. However, my truck is not lifted. A factory pickup with high-quality all-terrain tires will take you almost anywhere, and you'll need a customized rock-crawling Jeep to go those last few places (watch some Moab off-roading videos for examples).
The lifting you're talking about is vanity and signalling and makes all driving worse. They usually have shit tires, too, so it's extra terrifying when you see one whipping down the road at 85 mph in the rain.
A rwd chevy s10 and a brain will get you 99.9% of the places that 99.9% of the population ever goes.
I see the problem with your analysis.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
On lifted pickup trucks - not sure how lifted you mean, but around here lots of the access roads get washed out and you need something with good clearance and breakover angles to get through.
Yeah, the number of people that live there and does that rounds down to zero. A tiny fraction of the population does that a tiny fraction of the time. And frankly, they don't need to anyway. Going hiking twice a year in no way justifies spending ten thousand dollars to ruin the ride of your daily driver pickup truck. That would be like if I walked around in my bjj gi at the office.
And anyway, from the video that appears to be a stock bronco, not a lifted pickup truck.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
It's basically a resort where you get to wake up somewhere new every day.
More options
Context Copy link
The girls I mentioned here love DoorDash, because it lets them avoid interacting with strangers. I also know a few men who use it multiple times per week, but that’s because they’re lazy devils who don’t want to leave the couch.
More options
Context Copy link
Because, you fool, any female born after 1993 can't cook.
(Joking aside, there's an appallingly large number of people who literally cannot cook themselves a single meal.)
More options
Context Copy link
I 100% understand all the sweet girly drinks. It’s like going to Dairy Queen for a treat. Chilling at a cafe while having a coffee drink with some sort of cake for a few hours is a lot of fun, but I don’t believe it pays the bills for them.
But I assume the bulk of their profits come from caffeine rush to get thru the working day. And that just seems like a huge time sink. Even if you work on the 50th floor of mega corp office building then going to get your coffee at Starbucks on the ground floor is still a 20ish minute adventure versus whatever office pot or espresso machine in the office.
Lifted pickups are the same as 80% of the economy. Status games showing yourself spending money. No different than spending $3k in the club whose real purpose is showing every girl in the club that you have enough money to spend $3k frivolously.
Sometimes you just need an excuse to get out of the office and take a walk, and sadly, in a lot of workplaces "I'm going out to grab a coffee" is more acceptable than "I'm taking a stroll to clear my head." Same thing as having a smoke break, really, but for non-smokers.
Yes. I get all the reasons people are saying. But personally I go to Starbucks or other chain coffee maybe once a year. Usually at the airport or something.
Maybe the logistics are a lot better than I am imagining but my intuition tells me it would take a minimum 20 minutes but probably closer to 30 to get to your chain coffee place, order, and get your product. I think I’ve seen the average office worker spends 3 hours a day goofing off on the internet so maybe it’s not a problem. Or the logistics are much faster than I imagine.
Money is a secondary thought since most offices have a coffee pot for free. But honestly Americans are rich enough and everyone waste money so $5 a day 250 days a year isn’t a huge mental block for me.
My “I don’t Understand” is much more on the financial side in America where rent and wages are high. So you actually need a lot of people with 20-30 spare minutes to get a $5 a coffee a day to support the store. I guess that’s about 1500 daily customer needed to support one Starbucks.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Around 40% of Gen Z and Millennials order food at least once a week. A significant minority, can't remember how many, order food delivered every single day. The wasteful fucking slobs.
Ordering food can be cheaper if you use the apps and wait for a deal. But that's still something you do once in a while, not a an every day thing.
More options
Context Copy link
I used to order food about once a week when I was at university. Typically pizza or chinese.
Sure, that's understandable, maybe good even. But every day? Very different situation. That's someone who never bothered to learn a single thing about cooking or how to get nutrition without additives or how to get through a day without over-spending.
Yes, absolutely agreed.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link