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PaperclipPerfector  8mo ago (text post)   28935 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 7, 2023

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Given that obesity is sorta culture war related and in the news a lot, I figured this story would be relevant: Weight-Loss Stocks Soar After Obesity-Drug Study Spurs Investor Frenzy

Weight-loss tied stocks jumped following the update with rival Eli Lilly & Co. surging 15% to a record high. A positive outlook in Lilly’s earnings report also helped fuel the climb. Viking Therapeutics Inc., a drug developer working on a treatment similar to Novo’s Wegovy, jumped 12%. And WW International Inc. — better known as Weight Watchers — which bought a telemedicine firm that prescribes obesity medications earlier this year, soared 13%.

Novo’s Wegovy showed a 20% reduction in heart issues compared to those getting a placebo in a closely watched study. The results cheered Wall Street bulls who called it a best-case scenario. Analysts saw the benefit extending the market for Wegovy as well as Lilly’s Mounjaro and possibly removing an obstacle in insurance reimbursement.

I am more convinced than ever that these drugs are not only the future of wright loss, but similar to Paxil, is also going to a part of culture too and another tool or crutch to mitigate the downsides of modernity, except instead of social anxiety , it's too much food. We're sorta collectively inflicted this on ourselves, as victims of our own success. The pendulum if progress has swung so far towards abundance that we need modern technology just to try to undo it.

crutch to mitigate the downsides of modernity, except instead of social anxiety

Of course, the drugs seem to work like shit compared to be an authentically mentally healthy human being. I expect that Wegovy and similar drugs will wind up similar on a number of dimensions. I genuinely cannot imagine preferring a lifetime of pill popping to just riding a bike.

Exercise doesn't seem to reduce weight by much, though of course it will make you healthier overall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/upshot/to-lose-weight-eating-less-is-far-more-important-than-exercising-more.html

I don't doubt the science on how many calories cardio burns directly, but there must be something more to it. Why do people who do a lot of exercise just never seem to be obese? Where are all the avid gym goers with double chins? Does exercise also help regulate appetite or something?

The exceptions I can think of are ones where piling on muscle is worth it even if it comes with a lot of fat.

You haven’t met my dad. Obese, pre-diabetic, dad-gut, exercises at the YMCA daily, eats 3 meals a day.

Meanwhile, I don’t exercise and I’m his mirror image.

Yeah, a lot of older guys at the gym lift, run, swim, are ostensibly doing a lot of exercise but are also very fat.

Where are all the avid gym goers with double chins?

Have you never been to Planet Fitness? /s

But seriously, I agree with the explanations by @curious_straight_ca and @hydroacetylene: people that are fat usually don't enjoy exercise.

Why do people who do a lot of exercise just never seem to be obese?

Plenty are!

Several years ago I lost quite a bit of weight by tracking my calories. I made no changes to my exercise routine which had been stable for the previous six months or so and just made sure to keep average consumed calories around 2200 kcal (maintenance level for a person my age and height). I ended up having an average 1000 kcal daily deficit for months while losing around 25 kg overall, meaning I'd been exercising ~1000 kcal worth daily for many months prior to that while having obese BMI and without any weight loss.

Exercise alone really doesn't work for weight loss for most people because they just end up increasing the number of calories eaten without even realising it.

I don't doubt the science on how many calories cardio burns directly, but there must be something more to it. Why do people who do a lot of exercise just never seem to be obese? Where are all the avid gym goers with double chins?

Most likely the causation arrow goes the other way. Obese people don't exercise because it's difficult for them to do so.

Does exercise also help regulate appetite or something?

It does absolutely. It upregulates it. Meaning that those who exercise experience more hunger. If you burn 500 calories on your exercise bike, and respond to your body's natural hunger cues, you'll tend to eat 500 more calories of food. And if you lift weights, you'll tend to increase in weight.

Every bodybuilder will tell you that fitness is made in the gym but physiques are made in the kitchen. It's very difficult to exercise yourself lean, except for at the extremes.

Exercise has many benefits, but for diet matters more than exercise for maintaining a good physique.

I can attest from personal experience that when i take a couple weeks off from the gym junk food is more appealing and when I'm really pushing myself vegetables and lean protein are delicious

Yeah, I actually lost most of my weight from diet but it feels like my regimen was most consistent and sustainable when I was also exercising. Part of it was that early on it seemed to help me fast but I've adapted past that now.

But still, if I fall off the wagon on exercise I seem to fall off with other stuff like diet. Not sure if it's the direct or only cause (there's some interaction with sleep quality but that's a cycle) but still.

It's easier to do it all sometimes.

It might work the opposite direction- exercise is horrifically uncomfortable for fat people, so they don’t do it.

Right, maybe that discomfort is also the feedback by which people are motivated to stay in shape. If I go for a cycle and feel terrible, the cycling itself won't have done much for me but it will be a wake up call for me to cut down on smoking/drinking/gaining weight (or if I'm feeling lazy, a wake up call to quite cycling).

The feedback cycle is not fitting in my damn pants. I don’t need to waste half an hour on the treadmill to tell me that. I spend that time because I want to be healthier.

by which people are motivated to stay in shape

The people who feel that way are not the target demographic. You're not the target demographic.

They're already not in shape. They don't have something they fear to lose, that's the point. Because of rising childhood obesity they may never have been in shape enough to distinguish between 'normal' and 'wakeup call'

Honestly, given that - adults who never even developed basic coping mechanisms - I'd pump this shit into the water supply if it was safe.

Why do people who do a lot of exercise just never seem to be obese

Not necessarily the only explanation but - The kind of person who is willing to do something somewhat uncomfortable for health benefits is the kind of person who will both exercise and intentionally eat less.

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