naraburns nihil supernum
7mo ago
(text post)
12755 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #3
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
That would be to bring back loco parentis. And in turn that would entail cracking down on the idea of universities as 1-star resorts that also have classes which everyone is entitled to go to for four years.
No, the only way to deal with "this" would be to completely replace the entire teaching staff, most of the curriculums, and vast swathes of left-wing political theory. Opposition to Israel is the logical and inevitable outcome of taking left-wing politics seriously - left-wingers don't actually like ethnostates in general, and ones that that murder brown people even less so. This isn't some weird bug in education, but the logical outcome of the political ideas and doctrines which motivate the left.
If you want to stop the left from being anti-Israel, you're going to have to completely rework their entire belief system. Israel is a white supremacist ethnostate that was founded with the help of a brutal terrorist campaign (ever read what Irgun and Lehi got up to?) and continues to enact racist, conservative and nationalist policies. The current leader of Israel was famously a huge fan of Donald Trump(who is not particularly well-liked in left-wing politics) and support for Israel is a famously republican priority. Even if you got rid of every single muslim on the left, every single person who had a direct, personal and nonpolitical reason to hate Israel, the left would oppose Israel anyway due to their own political values.
The legal principle(now abolished) that colleges have some parental rights and responsibilities over their students(and even in the west parents usually have some added rights of control over very young adult children).
College kids do not jump at these extreme ideologies because the adults not supervising them push it, they do it because they're unsupervised teenagers being catered to in a compound full of unsupervised teenagers who are following peer pressure. And fixing that requires going back to the prior legal regime granting universities wide latitude in regulating student's personal lives.
magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
hydroacetylene 6mo ago
You should never hand someone a gun unless you're sure where they'll point it. While in this one highly-specific case universities would probably act as you want, out of fear of the Zionist lobby getting their donations pulled, outside of that they have no real interest in stopping SJ lunacy and a huge amount of interest in purging themselves of rightists.
And the academy didn’t used to be so left. In fact the lurch to the left came when in loco parentis became illegal.
This is because it is much more appealing for unsupervised leisure class teenagers(which is what college kids are) to join up with the ideology that lets them fornicate and experiment with substances. The lurch to the left is entirely predictable on that basis when you add peer pressure and signaling dynamics. Even in Greece and Rome the conservative elites of the day complained about the unsupervised leisure class teens of the day shifting in ways that are certainly reminiscent of university leftism even if they don’t match 100%.
magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
hydroacetylene 6mo ago
And the academy didn’t used to be so left. In fact the lurch to the left came when in loco parentis became illegal.
That doesn't mean that reinstating ILP will cause a reversal of the academy's politics!
This is a loaded analogy, but I can't think of a better one, so: if there are rabbits in the east and no rabbits in the west due to a fence, you tear the fence down, and then you put it back up fifty years later, that won't disintegrate the rabbits that are now in the west.
No, it does not, but in order to make your eradication of rabbits in the west stick you need that fence- as NZ's quixotic obsession with getting rid of invasive species has found. ILP is the fence; not sufficient in itself, but very definitely the precondition for making any of your efforts work.
If you don't know, Duck Duck Go is just an https call away. It's a legal phrase that means that the schools have broader authority and act in place of the parents since the parents aren't there.
The implication is that irresponsible parents are offloading parenting to institutions which aren’t up for the task. If only they’d chosen traditional marriage instead of (dual-income/single parenthood/homosexuality/etc.), we wouldn’t be in this mess.
I think there are some obvious holes in the theory, starting perhaps with the Beat generation. But it has a certain appeal.
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
That would be to bring back loco parentis. And in turn that would entail cracking down on the idea of universities as 1-star resorts that also have classes which everyone is entitled to go to for four years.
Not going to happen.
No, the only way to deal with "this" would be to completely replace the entire teaching staff, most of the curriculums, and vast swathes of left-wing political theory. Opposition to Israel is the logical and inevitable outcome of taking left-wing politics seriously - left-wingers don't actually like ethnostates in general, and ones that that murder brown people even less so. This isn't some weird bug in education, but the logical outcome of the political ideas and doctrines which motivate the left.
If you want to stop the left from being anti-Israel, you're going to have to completely rework their entire belief system. Israel is a white supremacist ethnostate that was founded with the help of a brutal terrorist campaign (ever read what Irgun and Lehi got up to?) and continues to enact racist, conservative and nationalist policies. The current leader of Israel was famously a huge fan of Donald Trump(who is not particularly well-liked in left-wing politics) and support for Israel is a famously republican priority. Even if you got rid of every single muslim on the left, every single person who had a direct, personal and nonpolitical reason to hate Israel, the left would oppose Israel anyway due to their own political values.
More options
Context Copy link
What is loco parentis? Why would it help?
The legal principle(now abolished) that colleges have some parental rights and responsibilities over their students(and even in the west parents usually have some added rights of control over very young adult children).
College kids do not jump at these extreme ideologies because the adults not supervising them push it, they do it because they're unsupervised teenagers being catered to in a compound full of unsupervised teenagers who are following peer pressure. And fixing that requires going back to the prior legal regime granting universities wide latitude in regulating student's personal lives.
You should never hand someone a gun unless you're sure where they'll point it. While in this one highly-specific case universities would probably act as you want, out of fear of the Zionist lobby getting their donations pulled, outside of that they have no real interest in stopping SJ lunacy and a huge amount of interest in purging themselves of rightists.
And the academy didn’t used to be so left. In fact the lurch to the left came when in loco parentis became illegal.
This is because it is much more appealing for unsupervised leisure class teenagers(which is what college kids are) to join up with the ideology that lets them fornicate and experiment with substances. The lurch to the left is entirely predictable on that basis when you add peer pressure and signaling dynamics. Even in Greece and Rome the conservative elites of the day complained about the unsupervised leisure class teens of the day shifting in ways that are certainly reminiscent of university leftism even if they don’t match 100%.
That doesn't mean that reinstating ILP will cause a reversal of the academy's politics!
This is a loaded analogy, but I can't think of a better one, so: if there are rabbits in the east and no rabbits in the west due to a fence, you tear the fence down, and then you put it back up fifty years later, that won't disintegrate the rabbits that are now in the west.
No, it does not, but in order to make your eradication of rabbits in the west stick you need that fence- as NZ's quixotic obsession with getting rid of invasive species has found. ILP is the fence; not sufficient in itself, but very definitely the precondition for making any of your efforts work.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
In loco parentis.
More options
Context Copy link
It means that their parents are just as crazy?
If you don't know, Duck Duck Go is just an https call away. It's a legal phrase that means that the schools have broader authority and act in place of the parents since the parents aren't there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis
This means no authority at all, students over 18 are adults and their parents have no longer any (legal) power over them.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
The implication is that irresponsible parents are offloading parenting to institutions which aren’t up for the task. If only they’d chosen traditional marriage instead of (dual-income/single parenthood/homosexuality/etc.), we wouldn’t be in this mess.
I think there are some obvious holes in the theory, starting perhaps with the Beat generation. But it has a certain appeal.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link