domain:questioner.substack.com
self_made_human
Grippy socks, grippy box
1d ago
Is this a record number of comments for a Friday Fun Thread? It's >300 at the time of writing.
Totalitarianit
1d ago
The south Asian presence, The art show, the price jumps, and the juxtaposition of a closed Canary Wharf hotel hosting asylum seekers jumped out at me. That said, it didn't read like the culture war was central, but rather the backdrop for a humorous post about someone's trip to London.
The olfactory input was overwhelming.
I laughed at this. It reminds me of when people used to comment "Imagine the smell." when looking a certain images, and then others would get creative and say the same thing but use different sentences like, "Contemplate the aroma."
100ProofTollBooth
Dumber than a man, but faster than a dog.
1d ago
I want to start fishing.
Rough location; Eastern US. Mid-atlantic to as far north as Boston and as far south as South Carolina.
For any anglers that might be on here, I'd be interested in recommendations for books, apps, YouTube channels, and subreddits (or other forums altogether) to help me get started.
Please and Thank You.
I think you're painting far too rosy a picture of prison, and eliding over massive potentially negative harms (such as the abhorrent 4% chance of rape every year edit: less abhorrent, but still bad - 4% "sexual victimization", 2.6% chance of what most would typically call "rape" ). I think treating prison as anything but an extremely negative experience for the majority of inmates is not realistic.
I agree that that mental illness and freedom have a complicated philosophical relationship. My general attitude would be results-focused:
- Would going to prison disincentive others from this behaviour? (potentially for the "just assholes", no for the crazies)
- Would it help this individual in the future (like you mention in your post, but I'm very confident the answer is usually no)
- Does it prevent this person from causing harm to others? (yes)
- Does it give satisfaction to the people this person has harmed? (Unlike other lefty leaning folks, I think retribution does have a place in criminal punishment, but there's a very very high bar for it. I don't think yelling at people on the street passes it. For murder, rape, serious assault? Yes screw that person. For yelling like a crazy person? Probably not, let's be calm and just try to help everyone involved as much as is practically possible)
- Does it harm the person in question (yes, definitely)
- How much is this going to cost vs just putting them up in a cheap room and telling them (forcing them) to go home when they get drunk/high/crazy?
This is a tough question, but the answer isn't to stop considering the rights of the homeless/mentally ill person at all.
Can I also ask, on a totally different tack, in what sense is it unjust to send a law-breaker to prison? Why would you be morally 'bad' to do so?
If you're getting the impression that I'm anti-prison or anti-punishment in general I'm not. But it has to be justified, and that justification should include the cost to the law-breaker themselves. It's the general idea of proportionality - it's pretty uncontroversial the the punishment should fit the crime, and if you're discussing changing punishments you can't just saw "whatever I don't care". You actually have to suggest what's appropriate.
I've mentioned in other comments - I agree the current level of tolerance and punishment for this anti-social behaviour is too low, and this is also an issue that affects me personally. The answer isn't prison forever, or forced labour, you have to have a limit somewhere.
VoxelVexillologist
Multidimensional Radical Centrist
1d ago
Anecdotally, corporal punishment in (rural) schools was ubiquitous through well after WWII. I'm not going to defend the practice, but there are plenty of family stories of it within living memory.
self_made_human
Grippy socks, grippy box
1d ago
Thank you, though once again I'm confused if someone doesn't see the CW here! You can see my reply downthread about that.
I haven't been in the UK very long, so take my takes with a NICE-approved amount of salt. The UK was doing well, or at least okay, until the middle 2000s. It was growing at a rate somewhat comparable to the US, or at least other Commonwealth Anglosphere nations. A British person could, with a straight face, claim to have a comparable standard of living.
Since then, it's been a story of stagnation. The economy has hardly grown at all, per capita productivity is down due to a significantly larger unproductive class subsisting on welfare (a lot of them immigrants).
In the places where the COL is lower, so are the incomes. Doctors are a rare exception, we make roughly the same wage everywhere in the country (largely because the allowances for living in a HCOL area are ridiculous). There are very few skilled jobs, manufacturing is as good as dead, and finance is great at inflating GDP, but little else. Energy prices are through the roof, and very little is being built, and hardly maintained.
Social cohesion, while not entirely dissolved, is at a nadir. Nobody is actually starving, but the young despair when it comes to achieving the same standard of living as their parents. People will claim that even in objectively wealthy nations like the States that have their economic engines firing on all cylinders, but it's actually true here.
Supah_Schmendrick
1d ago
Even "pariah states" have friends somewhere; e.g. North Korea and the PRC.
Really? If you insist, I can actually mug someone in Bromley, a racially-motivated hate crime will, I hope, count as CW.
I think you're missing several clear culture war elements that run throughout the post. Let me point out what I see, I have an advantage courtesy of writing this post, and also having functional, albeit myopic eyeballs:
The observations about London's demographic transformation ("It has more Mirpuris than Mirpur, and more Bengalis than Bangladesh") directly engages with ongoing debates about immigration and cultural change in Britain. I acknowledge my 'privilege' in being able to say it so bluntly at all.
Critiques of modern art or post-modernism in general are hardly new, but they're still entirely relevant. I went into detail on how the Tate is the best parody of itself that one could hope for.
The economic observations about London pricing aren't just complaints from an inept tourist, can't you see the link topolitical debates about housing costs, wage stagnation, and quality of life? When noting that doctors are striking and that London's pay premium doesn't match its cost of living, that's quite explicitly touching on healthcare policy, the failures of the NHS and urban planning issues that are very much culture war.
The asylum seeker hotel conversion mentioned is an explicitly political topic that's been contentious in British politics. The speculation about it connects to real debates about immigration policy and resource allocation. I can only repeat that people are rioting over this as I speak.
Even the class observations throughout - from Bromley's safety to Canary Wharf's demographics to the woman pawning her ring - what do you think they say about inequality, social mobility, and economic stratification that frequently appear in culture war contexts?
It's both travelogue and cultural commentary precisely because I'm observing British society through the lens of someone who's both insider and outsider, which gives it analytical value beyond mere tourism reporting. The culture war elements are everywhere, interspersed with what I deem to be illuminating (or at least funny) experiences, and I don't see how one can miss them.
If this wasn't enough, the CWR thread also, at least from established precedent, allows just about anything that is high effort. If I'm in violation, I'll turn myself in to the other mods and await sentencing. If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath.
There are fewer English people here than last time I was here.”
I never made such a claim, because whatever demographic change happened in a mere three years wouldn't be obvious just by looking.
Edit:
You asked what an ideal follow-up comment would look like. I suppose it would be someone engaging with one of those specific threads. For instance:
-
Someone arguing that my take on the Tate is philistine and I'm missing the point of conceptual art. I would be very skeptical of such a claim, but I'd engage with it.
-
Someone offering a counter-narrative on social trust in a neighborhood like Bromley. We've got plenty of Londoners on this site, and in this thread.
-
Someone with more economic expertise explaining why my "pint index" is a flawed metric or offering a better explanation for the price discrepancies. This has at least partially happened already.
-
Someone sharing their own experience of the "vibe shift" in London over the last few years.
If I'm wrong about anything, I seek to be corrected. I'm not wrong about this being CW, at the very least.
VoxelVexillologist
Multidimensional Radical Centrist
1d ago
I suspect China's relationship dynamics are more related to gender asymmetry than divorce laws. Or at least it's a huge confounder that merits consideration.
VoxelVexillologist
Multidimensional Radical Centrist
1d ago
It would seem like the "millionaire next door" approach would work plausibly for rich guys not quite rich enough to be public figures. Maybe that happens often enough (has golden handcuffs from startup acquisition, still drives a Prius), but I've never seen it explicitly called out as a strategy. If you're rich enough and a public figure such that Google knows who you are (doctors, lawyers), that seems harder.
Magusoflight
1d ago
That’s fine, bring back the lash then. Have judges order public lashings. The effect will be similar, so long as delays in arrest - punishment aren’t too long
coffee_enjoyer
☕️
1d ago
The soldier in the linked video (super interesting channel) mentions that the feeling of nearly dying is addicting and lead to beneficial life changes. Naturally, you have to ask “how can this be optimized”, and I concluded that the bunker experience is effectively already optimized.
Yeah, that's the bet all western jews are making. They think Israel is going to fall someday, and their political opinions are often a sublimation of that basic choice. Some take it one way, some take it the other, but it's just pre-survivor's guilt.
This is how the jewish people have survived thousands of years without a country.
self_made_human
Grippy socks, grippy box
1d ago
I suppose one can definitely cut down on costs by avoiding eateries, pubs and clubs. As far as I can tell, that also removes the onus that draws most people to the city!
It's not just the restaurants and pubs, but the rent, desirable amenities like car ownership, and so on.
I'll keep an eye open for a Waitrose, I suspect there's one nearby, and if not, there must be a couple lurking even in my end of Scotland.
FlailingAce
1d ago
Can I ask, what do you think is so bad about prison? If you're a homeless guy who goes to prison, you get a roof over your head, a bed to sleep in, three meals a day, and a certain amount of access to a gym, a library, and healthcare. If you're thinking 'freedom', well, there's negative and positive freedom, and a homeless, mentally ill person isn't positively free because they lack the resources and probably the wherewithall to actually do almost all activities, and are forced to spend much of their time scrounging for the basic necessities of life - in my opinion they may be more free in prison because their basic needs are met.
Can I also ask, on a totally different tack, in what sense is it unjust to send a law-breaker to prison? Why would you be morally 'bad' to do so?
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
1d ago
The rules for what's allowed in the CW thread have always been extremely loose.
It would probably be good to encourage people to create more threads outside of the CW though, because then people might actually start looking at the non-CW threads more often!
TheDemonRazgriz
1d ago
I would give a slightly unusual but wholehearted recommendation to start with Gundam 00 (my personal favorite of the franchise, and probably one of my favorite anime series in general).
It is fully standalone, so you don’t need to worry about Gundam continuity— while you’ll inevitably miss some of the thematic callbacks to the overarching franchise, the only one that really matters for understanding 00 is that the timeline is pointedly set in terms of “A.D.” time (where other continuities are given alternative labels like being set in “the year 0079 U.C.”), meaning it is supposed to be set in the future of the real world as opposed to a more vague sci-fi future; this is thematically relevant in that the show is really trying to say something about the structure of the world and about the trajectory and nature of humanity. Having been made in the mid-00s a lot of the themes and morals are, in my opinion, notably prescient and are still relevant today.
Without spoiling anything, I think the reason I like the show so much is that it’s one of fairly few anime (or any pop-cultural media really) that you can watch with your “literary analysis brain” engaged and actually get a payoff for it. Damn near every creative decision, plot development, and character arc is meaningful and analyze-able in a way that connects to the central themes and plot. For example this is the reason why my fiancee, who very rarely likes mecha anime, thoroughly loved it— there was always something to talk about after every episode, often something meaty too. I’d caution that it is a bit of a slow burn, but this is deliberate and the pace does pick up as it goes on. It’s definitely not a perfect show, there is filler (although less than in a lot of similar shows, and there’s never an outright wasted episode) and there were some production issues that do show at times, but never anything bad enough to really drag the show down.
Very strong recommendation as an anime in and of itself, regardless of being a Gundam series really.
Stellula
1d ago
I do not understand the point of this post in the “culture war roundup” thread.
This just reads like a travel blog. What are you getting at here? This seems like a lot of words to say: “I am Indian. I went to London and it was more expensive than last time. There are fewer English people here than last time I was here.”
What would your ideal follow up comment to this look like?
self_made_human
Grippy socks, grippy box
1d ago
I'm in the UK because I can't go to the US, at least as a doctor. If you want to know the underlying cause, it's to do with an issue with my med school. It needs a very specific form of certification, and both the Indian government and the NGO that provides it (American) have been of minimal help. I wasn't able to get the ball rolling while I was in India, and eventually decided that instead of wasting time, I might as well apply to the UK. If that hurdle is solved by the time I'm done with my current program, you bet I'm trying to leave.
Until then, I've mostly made my peace with the UK. It's far from the worst place to live!
netstack
Texas is freedom land
1d ago
Oh, most certainly.
It’s my pseudo-suburban wasteland that ought to ward them off. We get yotes and bobcats.
JarJarJedi
1d ago
- about 15 mins, 10 miles
- about 20 mins (it's really close to #1 actually but somehow google maps says it'll take 5 mins more to get there. Probably due to a bunch of 1-way streets aligned the wrong way).
- Depending on what you mean by "farm". If you mean anybody who grows stuff that people eat for profit, then about 3 mins walk. Or 10 mins walk into practically any direction, they are everywhere around (though house prices are squeezing them out). If you mean a larger production with serious machinery and volumes, probably 1-2 miles. Two literally nearest ones grow cows and corn, as far as I can see, but there are all kinds around here. In fact my neighbors across the road have a large field but I am not sure if they grow stuff commercially (I can't see very well into that part of their property and I was never curious enough to find out, but wouldn't be surprised), but if they do then the answer would be "right next door".
- If you need specifically Amtrak, about 250 miles. Though there's talk about building a new line - not sure how real, but if it happens, it'd be about 10-15 miles likely. There used to be train service there, but closed in 1990s.
- 4 miles, 10 min drive. There are other large shops closer than that.
- Nearest major airport is in about 10 miles, which can take you to every major hub around the US and some other places, but it isn't "international" anymore as the company that was doing flights to Canada doesn't do it anymore. Which I guess is good as it eliminates the need to maintain the whole international security thing. So the nearest international one would be in about 350 miles, though the one you'd actually want to use if you flying to Europe or such is about 650 miles and about 1.5 hour flight.
rae
1d ago
Great writing as per usual, although I'm not too sure what's the culture war angle here.
Your tidbit about inflation has left me wondering. How exaggerated is the purported social and economic decay in the UK? The impression I'm getting from abroad is some of the lowest wages in Western Europe coupled with extremely high cost of living. The salaries for some professionals are comparable to Eastern Europe even before purchasing power parity. Underfunded everything from education to the NHS. Yet somehow the price of goods and rent keeps climbing, especially in London.
Bartender_Venator
1d ago
Ah, you did get to my old neck of the woods. I took my first steps as a baby in the Natural History Museum.
There's a big price differential between the markup on pints/meals and supermarket stuff in London, for obvious reasons - those pints and meals have to be served to you by people who live in London. Personally, I find that Waitrose is comparable in price to non-Aldi/Costco US grocery stores for much higher quality.
Unlike almost every other person talking theoretically here, I actually did go to school with corporal punishment. I am not even old this was mid 2000s. I do remember that it was 1) quite good at establishing teacher’s authority 2) pacifying the troublemaker kids into learning a bit or at least not disturbing others and 3) extremely discriminatory. Girls virtually always got a pass, so did the boys with middle class or higher parents. I remember vividly the day when an inspector visiting the class noticed the wooden stick in the corner and remarked to our teacher that the ministry doesn’t approve of this anymore. It disappeared and never came back.
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