domain:retrofuturista.com
SkoomaDentist
The Greater Finnish Empire
3hr ago
How do those countries handle cases of "odd jobs" and stuff like that? If you're a farmer that makes money by, I dunno, selling grain, how does the government know how much was sold? Or if you sell goods/services direct to consumers?
A farmer already has a business, so those would be handled the same way as any other business transactions. Selling small scale goods / services requires reporting the income if it exceeds a small threshold, but that's still fairly easy and can be done online. If it's more substantial, you may want to start a business. There are also services for people who do occasionally freelancing gigs that charge a small percentage fee to act as their official employers, so the client doesn't have to deal with paperwork and the person doesn't have to deal with the extra complexity of starting up a business.
FtttG
3hr ago
I had heard of it before, but using "watermelon" in reference to pro-Palestine types seems overwhelmingly more likely.
MaximumCuddles
The world-spirit texting on the toilet
4hr ago
While this is true, amongst the young it’s mostly used to describe pro-Hamas types on social media who use the watermelon emoji because it has the same colors as the flag of Palestine (🇵🇸 🍉)
When I think of a watermelon in a political sense I think of what you’re describing, a commie using (often fake) concern for the environment but only when it pits them against their favored enemies.
Browser
4hr ago
I've literally never heard of this interpretation as a fairly lively culture war reader. Either Palestinian watermelon emojis or 'black people like watermelon' feel overwhelmingly more likely
Fellow former liberal here. I also would had been offended by those chats 10 or 15 years ago. These days, I just shrug. When the left wing stopped being about tolerance and acceptance and started being about finding a new group of people to hate (e.g. how the illiberal left hates men who date in other countries[1]) I became a lot more jaded, cynical, and apolitical.
[1] I have a lot of real world female platonic friends, and they all universally support me living in another country and dating women there. The only people in the real world who at all opposed me dating in another country are both men: One straight man and one gay man.
quiet_NaN
4hr ago
Opposition to women’s suffrage is common.
That is not very reassuring, actually. It is also a platform which is widely unpopular. I guess that >90% of the women will oppose it, along a majority of men. The only way I see women losing the franchise is along with everyone else.
I mostly agree in theory, but as far as I can see, this being applied in a rather one-sided manner has serious real-world consequences that can't be overlooked. In many parliamentary democracies, the moderate right refuses to work with the far-right, while the moderate left happily works together with the far-left, which means there is a strong bias in favor of the far-left of getting their. Germany is the most extreme example here, as the moderate right as boxed itself into a corner of now only being able to coalition with left-wing parties. Only a fool would think this has no practical impact on politics, and indeed, the CDU was forced to put extremely stupid far-left green current-day demands into the german constitution just to avoid working together with the far-right.
The same happens with violent protests ; Several dozen organized, masked left-wing extremists can storm a moderate right (CDU) office, threaten staff and trash furniture and it will not even go into political violence stats since it gets recorded as a "protest". The moderate politician has to fear violent altercations with the left if he speaks or votes the wrong way. Again, this has practical impacts on political outcomes.
The same, again, in science, my own field of employment; Far-left activist-scholars (their own moniker!) get to openly admit that they consider their political views as more important than there scientific integrity, can openly involve themselves in blatant witch hunts, and there will be not only no repercussions, but they will be, if anything, rewarded with government money. On the other hand, a politically unaffiliated researcher who gets unfortunate results (by left-wing views, that is) in a study but stands by them due to the methodological strength of the design risks his whole career, and other moderate scientists around him are pressured to denounce him as far-right lest they get the same fate. That this is possible is a direct result of genuine right-wingers having been stringently excluded much earlier - not only would they have the moderate's back on this topic, it also means that the demand for right-wing extremism exceeds supply, so you have to start to cancel moderates to keep the far-left happy.
And I can only repeat it, I don't even consider myself right-wing. All I want is being able to do independent research(in my employment) or common-sense governance (in politics), and the far-left is fucking scary, has actual positions of power and can openly do what it wants with little fear of reprisal. The far-right is a bunch of truckers or anons that have to keep their head down lest it gets chopped.
This is the reason why Trump got elected, and why the Afd in germany is literally the largest party.
stuckinbathroom
4hr ago
debased
Heh.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4hr ago
Yeah, I think I was all over the place. The "purge the crazies" bit applied to past conversations that got me here. I wasn't sure how much the YR situation applied originally, but now it seems pretty clear to be humor.
FiveHourMarathon
Wawa Nationalist
4hr ago
Congratulations! May you be an example for us all!
I do find it funny/trendy when people label "eating a late breakfast" as intermittent fasting.
WandererintheWilderness
4hr ago
Are you saying no taxpayer funding is involved in declaring National Penguin Day, or are you claiming that taxes aren't collected by threat of violence
I believe he's claiming that "Penguin Day">"paid government bureaucrats">"taxes">"violence" is too many degrees removed to meaningfully equate one end of the chain with the other - the sense in which Penguin Day 'involves' implicit violence is so abstract as to be meaningless in any everyday sense of the wod 'violence'. Compare "Starbucks">"cheap imported coffee beans">"Western economic supremacy">"legacy of colonization" as supposed proof that having coffee makes someone complicit in the evils of 18th century colonialism.
WandererintheWilderness
4hr ago
Oh, if you don't believe that the shitposters in this particular case are evidencing any evil beliefs, or potential for harm, as you would recognize them in moral terms, then that answers that. I understood your talk of "coming together to (…) forge a pact to purge the crazies on each respective side" as applying to 'crazies' who you would find morally reprehensible by your own standards, as much as a sincere principled leftist might find assassination-supporting accelerationists or an indiscriminate cancel-mob morally reprehensible. I hadn't understood it as a question of 'aesthetics' at all. It is in that framework that I was arguing that you should still deal with the evil extremists on your own side even if the opposite side isn't repressing its own. If you agree with this principle, but simply don't think it applies to the YR chatlogs then we have no real disagreement and I'd simply misunderstood you.
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
5hr ago
I think you underestimate the amount of domestic terrorism that is either not strategic at all, or seems to have the purpose of sending a message like "it's not worth the trouble to keep oppressing my allies". The latter must be the case for instances of religious and ethnic domestic terrorism - surely the PKK or ETA didn't think that the Turks or Spanish actually wish for them to have more rights and must just be awakened to the fact.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
5hr ago
I can understand going out of my way to police the shitposters on my side when the two sides have roughly the same values, mutual respect for one another, and are committed to having a rational conversation. In that case this sort of policing of my side to conduct itself in a way that is not offensive to you reaffirms our mutual respect, serves as tangible evidence that our values are mostly aligned, and helps ensure that the rational dialogue continues. But when:
- These gestures are not reciprocated
- When they are offeres by my side unilaterally, they are not interpreted as proof our values are aligned
- Rational dialogue is not only not happening, any attempt for my side to engage in it is met with coordinated efforts to shut it off
- It's not even clear whether anyone is actually offended by any of this, or if it's just a cynical ploy to disrupt coordination on my side
Why should I work to make my side conform to your aesthetics? This has nothing to do with morality, your aesthetics are not morals.
TowardsPanna
5hr ago
I wasn't the one asked, but... We've got at least two of them right here on the forum. SS being a good example of a modern Nazi. He thinks the Holocaust was a good thing (while also denying its scale).
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
5hr ago
· Edited 4hr ago
By "all Charlie Kirks", I meant outspoken relatively extreme right-wingers, not the set consisting of just Charlie Kirk. Otherwise it would make no sense that posters here (who are presumably not his reincarnation) would feel personally threatened by the rhetoric.
Shooting Charlie Kirk was at most a small step towards a hypothetical end goal of shooting so many of the most outspoken right-wingers that even some Motte posters make the cut. My impression is that, in the Left's eyes, the Right has already gone relatively further towards a hypothetical goal of installing Mecha-Hitler - after all, they have installed a norm-breaking nativist president with a significant cult of personality who removes ethnic outsiders and openly defies mechanisms that are meant to prevent concentration of power in the system.
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
5hr ago
If the target group is actually the majority, then any indiscriminate attack hurts the correct target in expectation.
(Besides, my impression is that domestic terrorism is more often than not in fact properly targeted - racists go for black churches, Islamists go for Christmas markets, etc.)
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
5hr ago
I'd be okay with that argument, if you accept that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Surely "bash the fash"/violent communist revolution LARP is equally "the lingo they grew up with" for the Twitter crowd that was dancing on Kirk's e-grave.
zataomm
5hr ago
Thank God you are here, it feels like I woke up yesterday and suddenly everyone I previously trusted was claiming the sky was green and had always been green.
WandererintheWilderness
5hr ago
This is a weird argument, and it's been cropping up a lot lately. It's one thing to argue that as a matter of fact there aren't any Nazis around - it's one thing to argue that the term has been broadened in common usage so as to be useless as anything but an insult - but the idea that it would be impossible for the term to be meaningful anymore? If there was a prominent movement which actually supported applying modernized versions of all core Nazi policies to 2020s America then I don't think it it would be useless or meaningless to call them Nazis. They don't have to prove that they are somehow "true heirs" to the 40s Nazi Party as an institution for that to, in principle, be a useful descriptor of something that quacks and goose-steps like a duck. That would go double if we posit that they explicitly aspire to rehabilitate Hitler and reclaim his legacy. Maybe there aren't any "modern Nazis" outside of a Lizardman's constant, but there could be, it's easy to imagine how that would work and how it would differ from the trolling LARPers we more commonly observe. The obvious comparison is the continued existence of Stalinists, Maoists, or even, like, European royalists in countries that abolished their monarchies centuries back.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
5hr ago
achievements as an actress
What's next, achievements as a prostitute?
Find some mother of ten kids, all or most of which turned out well, who worked herself to the bones all her life long in order to support the family. Make sure she was married to an industrious and law-abiding husband all the while.
Put that on money, and watch the feminists squirm while actual women living real lives get some representation.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
5hr ago
Ah, my bad, I should've actually read the damn thing.
Yeah, fair enough, that guy might have been an actual nazi or at least a hanger-on to actual nazis once upon a time.
MadMonzer
Epstein Files must have done something really awful for so many libs to want him released.
5hr ago
Edith Wilson got there first.
MadMonzer
Epstein Files must have done something really awful for so many libs to want him released.
5hr ago
Amelia Earhart is a very good suggestion. I think my criteria would be pre-1950, not a DEI exaggeration
Earhart's achievements were exaggerated by the 1st-wave feminists of the time for DEI reasons, and continue to be. Dalrock brought receipts
Your list makes me consider Hedy Lamarr. Her achievements as an engineer are somewhat exaggerated for DEI reasons (the US navy didn't take her work on frequency hopping forward at the time, and the people who developed CDMA probably weren't aware of it) but her achievements as an actress are not.
It can be that, but it can also be the complete opposite. For example, I trust myself to not engage in immoral behaviour, therefore I do not walk on egg-shells around moral subjects (this scares the shit out of some people, though)
Homosexuals might find it easier to joke about how gay they are, but as will straight people who have overcome any fear of being thought of as gay, because they know for sure that they're not. As with the Horse Shoe Theory, the correlation is curved.
A lot of people with dark humor have been victims of the things that they joke about, by the way. I find it quite distasteful when people who haven't experienced such things accuse them of being insensitive, which is often what happens. Too much morality is performative, and I find this whole situation to be another instance of people point fingers at others in order to feel morally superior and score virtue signaling points, or at the very least it's a reaction prompted by fear (rather than goodwill, taste, actual concern, etc)
You could argue that some jokes are bad taste, but I think this depends on a lot of factors, and that most of them are hard to judge from an outside perspective. Once you know a person well, you will be able to tell their real attitude towards things that they joke about, and the mindset which prompted the joke.
Edit: Extra thing of note: If somebody is a bad person, it's better for everyone if they show it than to hide it. For this reason, I see no point in punishing speech even if it's vile.
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