domain:science.org
KingOfTheBailey
5hr ago
Individuals can do that; amorphous groups never can.
And in-between, specific groups can. This wasn't the group I was looking for, but in 2015 a group called Freedom To Marry shut itself down:
And, proving your point:
Instead of becoming “an organization that flails around and figures out what to do next,” he said he would help employees find work in other “good-guy causes” and make sure the group’s records were properly archived so that other social movements could study its methods.
Botond173
5hr ago
sentiments that actually, promiscuity is good, being a camgirl is a completely normal job, and having a dozen boyfriends in one year and collecting gifts and favors from all of them on the way is par for the course and bystanders should politely not notice it
Also, "sex workers" should not be discriminated in any way anywhere, and if they are, hypocritical men and indoctrinated/self-hating/brainwashed women are to blame, because it's only men who watch porn, and all men watch porn. They are victims, unless we decide that they actually aren't. Any man who expresses any viewpoint about the porn industry that isn't 100% supportive is just a thirsty loser garbage human. On the other hand, sex work should idealistically not exist at all, but it should be completely normalized in the intermediate period until feminism does away with it; at the same time, this should not give the impression to toxic men in any shape or form that it's normal for women to engage in sex work in exhange for money and that it's something that can be expected from cash-strapped modern women.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
5hr ago
Look, it's not much of a bailey. A bailey is a walled area one means to make use of. This is more of a wide open field I took a stroll through on a whim.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
5hr ago
Isn't "you can't know that it's not happening" more of an anti-argument; a discussion-stopper?
Botond173
5hr ago
As far as I can tell, the main factor in all of this is that women remember the disappointing experiences they had with men they are attracted to and the assume that such behavior is universal among men. I very mouch doubt the women who install and use this app ever even notice or interact with anyone from the bottom fifth of the male socio-sexual hierarchy.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
5hr ago
Recklessness with regard to truth is sufficient to establish actual malice.
"I heard it on the internet and it was too good to check" is a textbook example of recklessness with regard to truth.
Botond173
5hr ago
I did a cursory search online to find evidence that Jean-Michel Trogneux does exist, is in good health and denied the allegations. I didn't find any, that's for sure.
Botond173
5hr ago
Let's see the original claim:
They dress skimpily, date industriously, engage in serial monogamy, and are not at all averse to material benefits resulting from these activities.
For the sake of argument, would you realistically know about it if any of your female cousins did engage in such things?
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
5hr ago
France has sufficiently strong privacy laws that it probably would not have been reported until Macron came to the attention of the English-speaking press, which is around the time he started running for President.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
5hr ago
Weren't fascist movements a reaction to erstwhile aristocracy ?
Mussolini had a large number of aristocrats in his cabinet, and ennobled a bunch of retired WW1-era generals who he didn't have to, as well as his own successful generals and a small number of Fascist politicians. I would say Mussolini had a revealed preference the continued existence of the Italian nobility as a functioning warrior-elite - indeed given the history of the Italian nobility, had WW2 never happened Mussolini would have left Italy with a more functional aristocracy than he found it with. I can't find a list of top people in the Fascist party organisation, so I don't know how many were aristocrats.
The only aristocrat in Hitler's cabinet (after the aristocratic conservatives associated with von Papen were sidelined) was von Ribbentrop, and the aristocracy was notably underrepresented among the Gauleiters. The Weimar Republic had abolished the formal status of nobility, so Hitler didn't have the option of ennobling his generals, but he never came across as someone inclined to do it. Even under Weimar, the German nobility was a functioning warrior-elite, and Hitler was never entirely comfortable with it - arguably the foundation of the Waffen SS is an attempt to establish an alternative warrior-elite on Nazi rather than aristocratic lines.
So I don't think there is a consistent view on fascist-aristocrat relations.
OliveTapenade
6hr ago
I'll actually give a limited defense of "What's your job on the leftist commune?"
I don't think the people engaging in that thread understand themselves to be sincerely laying out a plan for a total society. On the contrary, the idea that it's a commune probably suggests that it's a small, utopian community within a larger implicitly capitalist society, if anybody is even thinking that far ahead. But I don't think they are, because "what's your job on the leftist commune?" is not a question about politics at all.
What the question is actually asking is, "What would you do if you didn't have to work?", or perhaps "How would you want to spend your life if you didn't have to participate in a capitalist economy?" The details of how the commune works are beside the point. If you didn't have to do anything you don't want to - how then would you want to contribute to society?
It's a utopian fantasy, and I think there's actually a place for utopian fantasy thought experiments. Throw realism out the window for a minute and - what would you like to do? Then once you've reflected on that a bit, take the insights you find from the process and bring them back to the grubby real world of toil and compromise.
The answers people give are cringeworthy, but all fantasies tend to sound cringeworthy when you voice them out loud, and I'd defend this kind of fantasy as a reasonable thing for people of any political orientation to do. Maybe it's a hippie commune. Maybe it's a trad farming community. Maybe it's on a Culture orbital. Maybe it's a royal palace, or maybe it's being an ascended digital being with god-like power. It doesn't matter. But I think that the job on the leftist commune is basically the same thing as, say, Bostrom's Deep Utopia. It's immature but perhaps useful - and if this makes me think more of random Twitter leftists and less of Nick Bostrom, then that's all properly balanced.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6hr ago
Could anyone tell who he was working for from the video, and did he said anything at all relating to their business?
If you want to say "a company should be able to fire and hire whoever they want, for any reason" there's entire books of labour law that would need to be abolished to stop the government from being "authoritarian".
functor
6hr ago
Or they have a claim that they have actually lived there for centuries and have strong family ties to the place. Unlike 1.5 million Israelis who showed up from Eastern Europe in the 90s claiming to live there because of penis skin. Not to mention that many Palestinians are Christian, especially before Israel wrecked the Christian population.
f3zinker
Its A/B testing all the way down
6hr ago
Maybe a bit "deceptive" but, Do you cook at home? It's quite easy to sneak in calories by using extra fat. And you will have to just a little bit more, it won't be noticeable. You can sneak in half a stick of butter into a pasta sauce without it being "greasy" if you do it right.
ActuallyATleilaxuGhola
Axolotl Tank Class of '24
6hr ago
This is it. After the (imaginary) authoritarian socialcon revolution, I'll let my kids roam free in our safe, crime free neighborhood, I'll let them attend public schools without fear of them absorbing enemy propaganda. I'll work a normal middle class drone job (like I do now). I just want to be free to live my small traditional peasant life and raise my family among the same. I don't want to be a warlord or a artist. I just want to grill.
2D3D
6hr ago
Their claim to Israel is that they bought the land in exchange for half the skin on their babies pensises which is a rediculus premise for a country.
Reductive racism back on the menu!
How about this: the entire Arab claim to the region is from a pedophiliac warlord preaching tolerance when he was weak and sheltered by the Banu Qurayza, then he betrayed them and enslaved their women and children through promising religiously ordained rape and slavery of unbelievers to mobilize desert nomads into a bandit horde. The chronological Quran is the inverse of the Bible: peace tolerance and manumission before victory, absolutist Arab supremacism justifying subjugation and humiliation of unbelievers once a power base was established.
THAT is the root of Arab claim to the region, forced conversions and displacements of Copts and Maronites and total annihilation of Chaldeans and Assyrians and Zoroastrians. Baby foreskins are currency to purchase land? What a wonderful concept. Arabs certainly found it easy to pay for their lucre with thriving Zanzibar slave eunuchs too, though simply slaughtering locals and forcibly converting remnants was also a great currency.
All this framing is obviously intensely hostile and deliberately so, because reductive polemicism opens up similar avenues of attack to other actors, avenues by which the directionality of hostility make clear why such polemicism is avoided by modern anti-israelis. Objecting to the jewish state on such grounds means objecting to the Ottoman Mamluk and Sassanid/Roman predecessors as well. Return to glorious Eber-Nari as the last relatively clean incarnation of that damnable region.
MathWizard
Good things are good
7hr ago
There's an important distinction between a person speaking to masses on behalf of or as a representative of their employer, and someone who merely happens to be an employee speaking their own opinions as a private individual in a context unrelated to their job, and having activists dig up their messages and threaten the company over them.
It is an imposition of government power to prevent an employer from firing an employee for their private speech, but not an authoritarian one. It is also an imposition of government power to prevent an employer from firing an employee for being the wrong race, and yet most of us would agree that is appropriate. It is worth it for the government to intervene and restrict freedoms if those restrictions create more freedoms as a result. In this case protecting the ability of people to speak and not be mindslaves to the megacorps (and the activists who cherry pick people to bring to their attention).
And in a game theoretic way the corporations will actually be better off this way! If corporations were legally prohibited from firing employees for first amendment protected speech when that speech was made outside of the workplace, then no activists would have any incentive to boycott or threaten the company for refusing to fire such individuals. They wouldn't be able to get anything out of it, and if they try to accuse the company of tolerating bad speech, because the company could simply point to the law and use that as an excuse and so their reputation wouldn't suffer and they wouldn't be forced to fire their otherwise competent and well behaved employee. Win-win for everyone except the mob.
2rafa
7hr ago
They are still considered Jewish according to Halacha in that they can revert to Judaism without having to undergo the conversion that a gentile would undergo.
The practicing another religion thing is more specifically about Aliyah / migration to Israel. That is governed by different rules and so some groups that are not halachicly Jewish (patrilineal descendants of the first and second generation) are allowed and groups that are (converts to other religions born of Jewish mothers) are disallowed.
In practice the rules are very rarely enforced. A substantial minority of Soviet / Russian immigrants were (and are) low key practicing Christians, true even if the recent post-2022 Ukrainian wave. Unless someone is an open missionary on social media they are rarely rejected.
2D3D
7hr ago
That horse has bolted. Hard to go 'ok bros we didnt lose but lets try peace anyways' and survive if peace succeeded. The immediate response would be "we could have been ok but we followed you for NOTHING".
To rebuild, the existing foundation must be destroyed root and branch. Total Hamas defeat is in fact a clean starting point for a new Palestinian political conceptualization to emerge. Jordan would be best, but given what happened to the West Bank where the Palestinians chose irredentist claims such an outcome is distressingly remote.
2rafa
7hr ago
Being anti-democracy and being socially conservative are two largely separate things. You could have a global authlib dictatorship ruled by an absolute monarch, obviously there were various socialist autocracies. It is true that the most trad conservatives (French ultra-Catholics) in the west tend to oppose democracy, but that’s often more about local political factors (like their hatred for the French Revolution) than anything else.
A left-wing commune dweller saying that after the revolution they'll lead discussion groups and make clothes out of scraps. A right-wing authoritarian saying they'd be a warlord an authoritarian society. I think you're making a conversion error when you say these are equivalent.
The would-be commune dweller is funny because leading discussion groups and making clothes out of scraps is no more plausible as a career after the revolution than it is before. If it's not profitable to do under a capitalist system them it's not practical to do under a communist system. If we had the money and desire for that kind of frivolous luxury then someone would already be paying you to do it.
Being a warlord is a real job, it's just that you chose for some reason to compare a regular person making clothes out of scraps with a highly-exclusive job reserved for social elites. A more reasonable comparison would be to a warlord's street-level enforcers, who actually tend to do quite well for themselves under an authoritarian system. "Under an authoritarian system I would be one of the dictator's goons enforcing his will on the people and exploiting his power to enrich myself," may not be a very moral stance, but no one can say that it's not a tried-and-true strategy for getting ahead.
If you work hard and kiss all the right asses you can climb the ladder of authoritarian goons until you become the warlord, like how Putin climbed through the KGB. That doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't make it all the way to the top is just wasting their time. Being a regular goon can still be a good job.
It's a common criticism levied at reactionaries that they imagine themselves as aristocrats instead of the masses, but I don't think it connects because it's just not accurate. And in fact I think it's mostly projection, or the sort of attempt at symmetry that you're doing here, a common feature (and demand) of liberal ideology.
What more commonly animates reactionary thought is a desire for normalcy and a return to an understandable order of things. In fact it is more commonly a desire to escape politics and not have to deal with one's social order being constantly upended. The story is all too common: "I just wanted to play video games".
If you actually look at the ideas, the reactionary thesis is that most people do not desire to participate in politics and that the job of a respectable aristocracy is to fulfill this demand. Mass politics is a leftist import that only really features in syncretic forms of reaction like fascism.
On this question, consider Wyndham Lewis' The Art of Being Ruled.
As for the more general consideration that the people who wish for more constraining social norms may chafe at too constricting ones, it seems as fallacious to me as pointing out that the people who demand slightly more liberal social norms may fall prey to anomie if all norms are destroyed.
A decent and stable equilibrium is what the object of desire here. The question of the dynamics and as to which direction for nomos is the slippery one has to be seriously examined for this to have any teeth. But I believe one will easily find that it is easy to destroy things and hard to create them, even social norms.
Now to compare this back to the yearning of communists for communism, it seems categorically different. Communists have a very specific and deliberate eschatology that most non revolutionaries do not have an equivalent to. And it is that yearning and that eschaton that are laughable, not the general desire for social improvement. Nobody ever laughed at lefties for desiring decent healthcare at an affordable price.
Yeah, that's a good take, I agree. Alternatively, if you rephrase the question as "you have to spend four hours working on the tasks the commune needs done the most, you can spend the other four hours on the tasks you think will benefit the commune. What are they?" the answers become acceptable as well.
The whole point of utopias is that they try to get away from "we toil and toil, and when we die, must fill dishonored graves" mentality. They are not about optimizing productivity, they are about uplifting every individual. Of course, the vast majority would say they would rather hang out with their friends, smoke dope and play vidya, but these people do not read, let alone write, utopian fiction.
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