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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   3114 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for December 23, 2022

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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Who is the female equivalent of Gigachad? Gigachad is ultramasculine (a bodybuilder with a massive, chiseled jaw) and women rate him less attractive than men. Who's that woman that makes women go "yasss, that's our gender's ultimate form! What's do you mean she's not that hot?"

I so do not want the answer to this turn out to be Kim Kardashian.

Anecdatally I’d say Aubrey Plaza: all of the women I know find her very attractive, but not a single man.

I'm a man and I find Aubrey Plaza irresistible.

Aubrey Plaza is like, probably top 5 on celebrities I'd do. Thin and aggressively mean is my type. If she had glasses she'd be perfect.

Anecdatally I’d say Aubrey Plaza: all of the women I know find her very attractive, but not a single man.

I'll register as a straight man who finds Aubrey Plaza very attractive.

Aubrey Plaza

She's got a severe case of RBF. When she's not smiling she looks like she's going to give you detention.

Manic Pixie Dream Girls.

Film critic Nathan Rabin, who coined the term after observing Kirsten Dunst's character in Elizabethtown (2005), said that the MPDG "exists solely in the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures"

Perfectly measures the most toxically feminine themes in every role Zoe Deschanel (sp?) ever played. Accomodating, but fun, but pretty, but not arrogant, but interesting, but not independent, but not needy, but not frigid, but not nymphomaniac, but not religious, but not materialistic.

ETA: Real life example Springora's Consent. A book I am torn about in general, in particular because she is 14, but that's the essence of toxic femininity. Seeing oneself as a side character, as the muse rather than the artist, as the object rather than the subject. That's the essence of everything bad we tell women to be.

MPDG is an female archetype men like and women don't like that much, not one women like and men don't like that much. To complete the quadrant, a man women like and men don't like that much would be one of these scary, dangerous, but brooding and haunted men with a tormented soul that need a woman in their life who can tame them and heal them. A Byronic hero.

I disagree. Your great MPDGs aren't in male-focused media, where they would appear in male focused media they only show up by reference to or in imitation of more famous female-focused works. Elizabethtown is a romcom starring Orlando Bloom, while New Girl had a viewership that was better than 60% female. You're not seeing MPDG archetypes show up as Bond girls or the fresh love interest in F&F 14.5. Women like MPDG media, men don't really care for it. On the other hand, real life gigachad types (John Cena, Ah-nold, Stallone, the Rock) never appear as RomCom protagonists in female focused movies, they appear in male focused movies where women are attracted to the things men like about gigachad (muscles, aggression, etc.).

Women dislike the MPDG archetype and complain about it because it is what they imagine they need to be to attract a man*. In the same way that the gigachad archetype/meme comes directly from RedPill/PUA/Incel discourse about how that is what they think women want. Both archetypes are taking the resentments that losers think apply to winners and expanding them endlessly past the point of logic. They're the gender/romantic equivalents of the old gag about Trump being a hobo's idea of a rich man or of scrooge McDuck.

Where the reality is that what most attracts partners is a mixed approach of quality/attainability. The Girl Next Door archetype for women. The classic romcom professions for men: Architect, small business owner (especially family business), farmer, widower with kids, reporter etc.

*In any women's discussion of mating, "attract a man" can be read to include the qualifiers "a man who is sufficiently tall/attractive/rich/committed/whatever." Similarly, but to a lesser degree for men.

Apparently I'm not the most men, as I find her very attractive. That said, the point about makeup in other comment applies. I think it's something that is supposed to be "oriental" and "exotic" and I don't like that part too much.

Interesting. What makes her so attractive to women?

Some of these women are not unattractive, but have a strange fixation with using makeup and accessories to look like they're about to issue an ultimatum to the Spartans at the head of a vile heathen army.

I can't tell where this style came from, although it seems influenced by the transvestite men who are so prominent in the fashion industry. Like women pretending to be men parodying women.

I can't tell where this style came from

Those lines, and that style in particular (including skin tone, to the extent it can be done artificially) absolutely screams "ancient Egypt". Which is... probably what they were going for given the rest of the outfit.

As for why the aesthetic is considered pleasing, it's probably just to try to accentuate the eyes (the modern equivalent being the racoon-style eyeshadow, but I think there's other things going on there).

It's less the eye makeup (although the sharp eyebrows are odd) than the extreme cheekbone emphasis and garish lipstick. Neither enhance their feminine features, but seem intended to make them look androgynous and exotic.

It seems like the exact sort of thing a homosexual autogynophile male fashion designer would want to make popular.

Aren't autogynephile and homosexual supposed to be mutually exclusive, autogynephiles being heterosexual men who like to imagine themselves as women because they like women?

My intuition is that autogynephilic men often want to transfer the kind of direct sexual desire that women receive to themselves, and they pursue that by attempting to transform into a woman in some kind of semiotic signifier-signalled double switch around. The resulting sexual desire comes from men/masculinity, which at one level of argument would render it homosexual. It's inherently complex and so it depends if and where you slice it into parts (homo/hetero) or if you sum the parts (man-loving-himself-as-a-woman, or -as-he-himself-loves-women, or etc).

Thank you. That's exactly what I was trying to get at without having the vocabulary.

I'm not aware of any female equivalent meme such as Gigachad.

But here are traits I have noticed that women weigh very highly compared to straight men.

  • Good sense of fashion.

  • Being thin to a fault.

  • Fancy haircut.

  • Interesting looking face (!= attractive face)

  • Overall aesthetic such as "art hoe" or "cottagecore".

  • Male like personality, think humor, sarcasm and aloofness (they project what they find attractive in men to other women)

If women wanted to optimize being maximally attractive to men and not what other women would think is attractive (sort of like the gigachad meme but in inverse), they would optimize;

  • Breast size

  • Butt size

  • Facial neoteny, or neoteny in general

  • Bubbly personality, high agreeableness (genz calls them "pick mes" lol)

You're modeling female heterosexual attractiveness as "being someone he'll dump a fuck in." Which is kinda like saying "If you're willing to scrub toilets you'll never be unemployed."

That is so say, true, but also bad advice for most people seeking to achieve something.

Yes because I am talking about SEXUAL attractiveness. Which is not the entire equatiion when choosing a life partner.

After all Gigachad is modelled as a Sex God implicitly, not a good husband.

You probably won't see even one person with a truly beautiful/stunning face, because they're that rare.

Why not? There are plenty of beautiful men in the gyms I go to (9-10 faces). Beautiful women seem far more rare but that might be more down to the types of gyms I to than something generalisable.

Yes, the face is the weak link in overall attractiveness. BUT, I don't think men place AS much importance on faces as women.

If I were to think of it. If I had two girls to choose from (A, B), Girl A has a 7.5/10 face and massive boobs, and girl B has an 8/10 face and medium-sized boobs, I would choose the girl with the massive tits.

I think this can extrapolate to most men. Ask them if would they rather prefer Kate Upton or Keira Knightly. This might be TMI, but when I see Keira knightly I think "wow, she is beautiful", when I see Kate Upton the dog inside of me takes over and I think in cavemen speak.

I think men extrapolate the weight they put on bodily attractiveness to women, hence the obsessive lifting.

Also I think there is a disconnect between biological attractiveness and "beauty standards". A mate that looks a certain way is an indicator of status, that certain way might not be the most biologically attractive.

The whole high SES men prefer skinny women shenanigans. All else being equal no man really prefers a skinny woman (small tits and ass).

This confounds conversations on the topic.

Attraction is hard to model and highly non-linear. And they are obviously not symmetric across genders even when you zoom into the most minute of details.

Maybe I'm wrong about that though.

I think you are confusing direction for magnitude.

My point was that a woman's attractiveness to men can be modeled as;

(0.75)*(facial_attractiveness) + (0.25)*(bodily_attractiveness)

Whilst a man's attractiveness to women can be modeled as;

(0.99)*(facial_attractiveness) + (0.01)*(bodily_attractiveness)

First point being that weights are not the same. The second point being of course it's not linear. So a "real" model would have floor and ceiling functions or activation functions in there. But I am confident about the weight ratios.

This is mainly time preference

Not so sure on this. I am not talking about tastefully thick, I am talking purely about breast and butt size. Large breasts and butts on a deeply subconscious level are coded as low status.

Male faces look much better at a low bodyfat percentage

women rate him less attractive than men

Interesting, sauce?

Not the biggest or the best survey, but at least it's there: https://datepsychology.com/women-dont-find-gigachad-attractive/

But can you believe what they say? In dating topics, the answer is usually "no," although I agree, I suspect men are over-estimating the attraction here.

Thanks

Audrey Hepburn. Beloved by all who would care but noticeably given a kind of feminine archetype status by women.

What is interesting with those brows is that it is not in fact a feminine feature but a masculine one. Few people understand that the modern artificially enhanced woman has in fact an androgynous face to such remarkable extent that some of their features become more masculine than men themselves.

Traditionally, for some value of tradition, an emaciated tall runway model was probably it. In the last decade or so I think the consensus has started falling apart and I'm actually not sure how much women think that men are actually into the kind of models they elevate with weird asymmetric hair and deeply caked on unnaturally colored makeup(I know that the natural look is still a good bit of makeup but I'm talking about something different than that).

Cleopatra?

Maybe something like GI Jane? Men vary a lot but tend to prefer softer more feminine looks, but Demi Moore was pretty well respected by women in that role.

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