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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   31769 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 2, 2023

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Are Asians/Indians considered more intelligent than whites? I know they list over there a supposed racial hierarchy on average intelligence (though they try to make the hierarchy sound like more), but I’ve always thought the Asians are smarter thing has too many other variables at play. Primarily that there are a lot of Asians on planet earth and the ones who make it to the west go thru a strong filter. Second reason is western civ is the current tech leader. This hasn’t always been true but has been for a few hundred years. In short we westerners see dumb whites at Wal-Mart but we only see smart Asians who made it thru Visa processes.

Japan, South Korea and Taiwan don’t come to your mind when thinking about rapid capitalist technological development? Even when they chose the civilisational path of building extreme commie hermit kingdom, East Asian North Koreans probably did better than any other nation in the history probably.

Also the claimed IQ diff between Europeans and East Asians is about 5 points. Pretty minuscule with limited consequences if true.

It depends what part of Europe. I think Scandinavians, Nords and East Asians are tied

It wouldn’t surprise me if the native populations of, say, Holland or Venetto were above 100 IQ on average, but- and this has to be said- where is the canonical listing of average IQ scores by ethnic group? It seems like there isn’t one because most of the qualified people are invested in obfuscating.

Also the claimed IQ diff between Europeans and East Asians is about 5 points. Pretty minuscule with limited consequences if true.

Wait, 5 points only? I thought the standard explanation was that if Europeans were set to have an average 100 points, East Asians have 115. Can you show me where someone said or proved it was 5 points?

5 points is not trivial on the population level. In this age of automation, specialization and cognitive labor the size of the nation's exceptionally intelligent subset is what matters. Basically, how many people do you have who can develop globally competitive software, conduct bleeding edge research, run modern companies? And on a tier below that – how many merely excellent engineers and diverse white collar workers can you field?

The difference of 1/3rd of a standard deviation is massive. This tool, courtesy of Emil Kirkegaard, is very illuminating.

With means of equally sized groups = 100 and 105 and cutoff being 130, the 105 group contributes 2/3rds of the talent. At cutoff 150, 3/4ths. And so it goes.

No I believe you are mixing it up with Ashkenazi Jews.

Can you show me where someone said or proved it was 5 points?

I am just regurgitating HBD trivia. I am sure someone else here can provide these though.

I just looked into it at Metapedia, seems like you're right. Richard Lynn measured Ashkenazi Jews as having an IQ average of 110, but North East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) have about 105 at most.

I wouldn't trust Lynn to tell me grass was green, so I'd suggest looking for some original data on that.

oh, really? What's wrong with Lynn? I'm not familiar with him or his history.

If I remember correctly Lynn didn't measure Ashkenazi Jews to have an IQ of 110. He wrote a book about Jewish IQ where, after looking at inflated IQ numbers for jews, and contrasting them with numbers from a test he actually did, which turned out a verbal IQ score of 107, he collapsed all of that together into a 110.

“Current tech leader” is not the same as successful rapid technological catch up. That’s just copying shit westerners did and technological transfer.

Seems these comments are similar to my thoughts - probably some truth to higher Asian IQ but it’s smaller and difficult to prove.

None of those countries (especially Japan) are playing catch up or copying stuff for decades at this point. They all lead in some pretty advanced tech fields.

What does China lead in? Japan?

But on net they are still behind the west.

Taiwan I guess you can give chips too.

High speed rail, efficient ports (Japanese and Chinese ports are the best in the world, the US doesn't even have the best ports in North America), AI image/facial recognition and hypersonic glide vehicles.

High speed rail, efficient ports

Are those technological issues or byproducts of Western bureaucracies and labor dynamics making it very hard to actually erect a best in class port/train infrastructure?

I'd say its largely due to regulation and union issues but that's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Would you develop really efficient port-technology if it was bureaucratically impossible? It only makes sense to make the tech really well if you can profit from its implementation. Yes, there are automated ports in Europe, they did invent the tech. But the Asian ports are the best at using it now, as with HSR. The US is particularly bad at these things, HSR and ports.

Having a capable government/planning system/labor market is just as important as having technological capacity. Organization of people is a kind of technology, just like organization of matter. People talk about the Chinese working on 'Chinese time' where they get things done quickly.

What does a technological issue even mean in a globalized world? A shortage of money to buy the thing you need? Inability to train/pay engineers that are needed to maintain it? Not having the industrial capacity to cost-effectively produce it at scale? Not having connurbations of know-how that allow quick manufacturing and iteration? Not having laws that allow it?

Not knowing how to make the necessary widget is maybe relevant for semiconductors, AI and missiles but everything else is human factors like organization, political priorities and wealth.

I bet this article would be really useful but it's dead: https://www.joc.com/article/us-ports-no-rush-follow-shanghai-automation-path_20171211.html

The 1970s movement from to SMD in circuit board design and layout was a massive deal, and Japanese companies like Panasonic were a driving factor in making it practical for consumer electronics rather than just IBM-level of specialization. Epson remains a leader on a lot of technologies, even if their printers suck.

For China: Manufacturing, supply chains, surveillance. Consumer payment infrastructure. Nuclear power maybe?

In AI, China is a good deal further ahead than the EU, though that's also kind of damning by faint praise.

I’d call manufacturing/supply chains as low tech. It’s stuff that’s outsourced because it’s not cutting-edge.

Maybe consumer payments.

AI I have no idea. I hear they publish a lot of papers but have they had any breakthroughs. Now the most profitable HFT firm (citadel) is ran by a Chinese citizen.

Consumer payments is a weird thing. Sub-Saharan Africa rapidly adopted mobile money tied to cellphone accounts for various reasons while the developed world is slowed by existing workable cash and card (magnetic is still not dead) payment systems lowering the value proposition of updating.

Manufacturing, maybe. But as far as supply chain goes, China is extremely skilled in it, pulling off feats that no other country in history or the present day could realistically compete with. It's high tech in the same sense that American finance is high tech: a capability that requires decades of investment, that few or no one can replicate, and that leads to large economic gains.

AI-wise, there's a significant gap between China and the US. But there's a vast chasm between China and the non-US world. China catching up to the US is a bit more plausible than the EU/India/Russia catching up to China.

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