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I wanted to discuss this article and what it misses.
The core thesis of the article is this:
His primary concepts are progressive overload, training to (near) failure, eating enough protein, and cutting a low body fat. His secondary concepts are Compound lifts, optimal set numbers, and following a lifting program. The tertiary ones are essentially everything else, calling out trends or minor issues.
I think the article itself is kind of confused, why is following a lifting program a secondary concept but going to a class or working with a trainer is a tertiary one? But those are minor quibbles.
The real term in the equation I want to talk about is TIME. It's the unexamined assumption underlying the whole article, and a lot of "common sense" lifting/workout advice you see online. I want to examine that unexamined assumption.
Time as the author looks at is really combined with the word "adherence" used later, so it's something like "time adhering to a plan/program." Adherence is almost never 100%, even professional athletes don't always do every written rep of every written set in every written workout they planned across a multi-month program. Things happen. 70-95% program adherence is pretty typical informally for people who say they "completed" a program block. Anything over 60% adherence is pretty much "doing" the workout plan.
My learned friend in argument @sapph (no o) talked here about this comment discussing the idea that life is about doing 100 things every day that you don't want to do. Sapph says:
And that's my jumping off point for what I think is missing: for the formula above for GettingJacked, or for any other similar goal, it's important not to treat time and adherence as black boxes, that just need to be brute forced through. ChaoticNeutral views the world in that way: lifting is simple, and maybe or probably unpleasant, but you need to apply willpower to it so as to maximize time and adherence and thereby achieve the goal. At this point in my life, I can reasonably say I've been lifting for the better part of 15 years, and more and more I react against that style, instead choosing like Sapph to constantly chase a new thing I'm stoked about.
I don't seek to optimize my program around adherence to the xyz principles at all, but instead on maximizing the TIME I put in by choosing a workout I'm stoked about. For some time like Sapph that was rock climbing for me, lately it's been new sports like jiu jitsu and long distance bicycle rides. But often it's just a matter of picking a new lift, or a new program, or a new implement like a heavy kettlebell or landmine. Picking a new game for me always ends up looking like having four or five new ideas, and trying them all at once until I see which one sticks.
And while I'm not a competitor in any sport, I'm reasonably proud of the shape I'm in. More and more I notice my friends falling off, and I think a big part of it is that attitude that places fitness and athletics in that "100 things you don't like but have to do" category.
The irony that I think causes the disconnect is that for a certain mindset, what gets them stoked about a workout program is exactly the thought that they are following an optimal program, or the minimal effective dose.
But I think a lot of people get stuck on that simple-but-difficult formula, banging their head against the wall, because they think that the only way to solve the problem is to apply more willpower. There's a tendency to refuse to try other things, or pay for other things, out of a kind of ascetic sense that it isn't necessary. But that's wrongheaded: the thing that makes you stoked about working out is nearly always worth it. The value of being in shape is nearly inevitably higher than the cost, and if being stoked is what you need it is what you need.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe I'm weird in that I do enjoy working out in a reasonably-decent way, and most people don't, no matter what they try.
I would say No to that inference. My interpretation of the article is:
"Time" in this particular article is the time adhering to those basic principles (primary, secondary, tertiary) and not to a particular program only. Like in your case, Time will be 15 years of following various programs. The consistency is in doing the doing properly, whether you do a 2 week program X, 5 week program Y, 4 month program / system Z, to A to W to AA to ZZ, etc.
Those "X weeks to jacked up" programs don't really work since the time element is short. But if you follow the same program multiple times (or different otherwise principled programs without repeating them), you are bound to have a good physique.
Sidenote:
This reminds me of Charles Poliquin athlete types (based on Braverman test which assesses which neurotransmitter dominant or deficient you are; out of dopamine, acetylcholine, serotonin, and GABA):
That is also why it is impossible to have a program which works with every kind of person!
side-side-note: IIRC, he originally created that on basis of 5 Chinese elements of fire (dopamine dominance), wood (acetylcholine), metal (GABA), water (serotonin), and Earth (balanced neurotransmitter profile).
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I think I agree with you. I have no problem getting myself to run/bike/swim 8-12 hours a week, but I can't for the life of me get myself to go to the gym and lift. I had no problem doing core and calisthenics in high-school and college with the team, so it's totally and enjoyment thing.
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There are alternative views.
If you aim to be an elite athlete, that makes sense. If you aim to be a reasonably healthy person with good fitness, this will get you in trouble. If you are not enjoying something, you are spending your willpower every time you do it. And however determined you are, the willpower is a limited resource. For which a lot of things are competing every day. If you do not enjoy it, you will start finding excuses not to do it. You will start unconsciously arranging things so that you would do less of it. And you will feel shitty about it, because you would know the excuses are bullshit, but you will still do it because that's the nature of human brain. And feeling shitty about it would drive you to do even less of it, maybe get rid of it altogether - with a very good and strong reason of course! - so that you stop feeling shitty. That's not a good way to do things. I mean, you can power through it - but statistically, the majority of chances are you won't. I am a big proponent of "do what works for you, and fuck any third-party opinions", but my experience tells me things I don't enjoy doing are much less sustainable than things I do enjoy doing. Even if it means I'd sacrifice some reps and some lbs for it - it's better to have some consistent reps than end up with no reps at all because you grew depressed by the whole thing.
This concept isn't holding up well to replication btw
Not that anyone really knows the answer, but studies (Carol Dweck?) have shown you can be psy-op'd or placebo'd into having more after it's been "depleted"
Personally, I think willpower and energy/tiredness are inversely correlated. Your willpower is worse at the end of the day because your brain is fatigued.
It certainly holds well enough for me.
Well, yes, but it's also true for many other things. Like, if you run until you exhausted and absolutely can't run anymore, if you get promised $1M or get attacked by a bear, you probably suddenly find it in yourself to run a little more. That doesn't mean however running doesn't get you tired, just that there are levels of tiredness.
I'm not claiming deep understanding of how exactly willpower works, I certainly don't have it. Just for me things that require a lot of it tend to be harder to maintain over the long time, and that seems to hold for other people too. If I hate something (exercise, diet, activity) I can push through it for a while, but the longer it goes, the more chance I'd find a way to stop doing it. On the other hand, if I feel good about doing it (note that doesn't mean it's easy - e.g. lifting or other exercise can be very tough and frustrating when doing it, or there were examples about martial arts - certainly when you're trying to get a complex technique or sparring with a tough opponent, you may experience a lot of frustration, but the whole package should still feel like you want to do it), I likely will keep doing it.
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I think so too. Nocebo effects are powerful. If you believe your willpower will go down the drain after a short time, your mind will make that your reality.
Kinda like how people can be tricked into less agency and more passivity by reading all about how "there is no free will; everything is pre-determined". Well, if that were the case, why are you more of a layabout after having learned about the (likely flawed) concept...?
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Fun is one thing, being stoked is another. See also type 1 2 and 3 fun.
I don't want to get into an argument with an absent third party about what he enjoys. But...he's obviously lying if he says he doesn't enjoy lifting weights. He might have found some way to influencer his way to some money out of lifting now, but he did a whole lot of lifting before ever reaching a point where he could make a dime, and even now it is probably just a hobby. If he didn't enjoy doing it at some level, he wouldn't do it. If he wasn't stoked about it, about reaching his lifting goals, he wouldn't do it. I've read his posts before, he often works out multiple times a day, and he's not a real competitor in any serious lifting series. He's doing this because he loves it, because he is stoked about it. He just likes bitching about how much he hates squats because he finds that kind of negativity to be more serious or whatever.
I'm stoked about jiu jitsu. That doesn't mean I'm constantly smiling doing jiu jitsu, or that it is always fun. There's a lot of times I'm not having fun. Six months ago it was even less fun. But I'm interested in reaching my goals, so that even when I'm cooked and my muscles are exhausted and I'm pinned under some gorilla who is trying to smother me, I'm still stoked to keep showing up, every day that I can, so that I can get better. The stoke is what gets me through the unpleasantness. If I just did unpleasant things for no reason, I'd be a literal masochist.
So like, yeah, I can picture a hypothetical person who just fucks around doing the "fun parts" without ever doing the unpleasant training parts. That's good advice for people like that.
But I know a lot of people who just don't work out at all. Those who keep starting a program they don't like working toward a goal they don't really care about, and give up after a few weeks every time. Those people need to try other advice than "do what sucks."
I'm pretty sure he doesn't make a penny from this.
I think he likes achieving his goals, but he doesn't like the process at all. I don't see why that should be impossible.
I don't really think it's possible to "enjoy" doing a program like deep water, even if you enjoy achieving your goals.
I didn't think so, but I haven't been reading lifting blogs for a while, so I didn't want to make an assumption.
That's pretty much what I'm getting at when I talk about being "stoked" on something. Being interested in it and finding meaning in it.
I would guess that the majority of people who have done deep water enjoyed lifting at some level, because almost none of them got anything useful out of it.
Maybe they were all cumming day and night
Unfortunately, when it comes to high rep squats, the COOM feeling from the pump is overwhelmed by the sensation of having been hit by a truck.
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Ohh, that's why the people in the gym make those noises...
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I think the real secret sauce of most problems of this sort is adherence or frankly discipline. The concepts behind the solutions are not difficult, they’re generally simple to the point of pre-school simple. Most people are simply undisciplined and end up relying on motivation to get things done and it simply does not work. If you want to reach a goal you have to work on it even when you’d rather do something else, when you’re craving something else. You don’t want to be fat, you need to eat less even if it means feeling hungry, eat healthy food even when you want pizza and wings. If you want to build muscle, getting into the gym is critical even (especially) when you’re not eager to do so.
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Heater. Training isn't a cost to be minimized, it's a reward.
ETA: Have you seen Nils van der Poel's "How to Skate a 10k"? (https://www.howtoskate.se/) On the one hand, insane volumes of autistically dedicated training, that indeed would not be and were not intended to be sustainable for a lifetime, but within that context it's pretty salient how much he emphasizes making it enjoyable/compatible with enjoying the rest of life. Well worth a read.
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You're right, but I think you're misunderstanding the original point of the article. It's not a formula for being reasonably in shape while maximizing enjoyment of your workouts for 15+ years, it's a formula for getting jacked. So, for that purpose alone, I think it's great. Obfuscation of additional complexity like enjoyment is by design because that should come later. I didn't start working out because I wanted an exciting activity to do, I wanted to stop being a long skinny stick. I think most people reading that article are in the same position. Enjoyment, understanding of health benefits and everything else came later. But following a dumb regiment that only required following a couple basic rules and consistency was very important in the beginning.
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Yes, Aristotle talks about this. So does TLP, in his own way. Time, commitment, action, none of these are black boxes. They're habits, and the question of getting to them is a practical one of habit-formation, not just willing yourself into doing something.
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Very much agree that maximizing enjoyment was the only thing that has gotten me to work out consistently. Plus, it's just better!!! Why force yourself when you can have fun?
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