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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   25732 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 27, 2026

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The actual science of separating species is (as most biologists will say) almost completely arbitrary.

This is a false statement propagated by the same class of people who have difficulty answering the question "what is a woman?"

The word "species" has a clear and commonly understood definition. If two individuals are capable of interbreeding and the offspring produced are themselves reproductively viable then those two individuals are of the same species.

The word "species" has a clear and commonly understood definition. If two individuals are capable of interbreeding and the offspring produced are themselves reproductively viable then those two individuals are of the same species

I'm pretty sure there are exceptions to that, biology is pretty wonky.

what is a woman?

For most purposes, a woman is someone who either (a.) is of the gender identity found more commonly in people born with vulvas, or (b.) has no gender identity and has a vulva.

I don't think this holds.

Much like the sexes are "male" and "female", there are 2 genders: "Man" and "Political". (By the same logic, there are also only 2 races.)

A woman is a Political that only claims that one singular identity. If it claims anything else, that Political is not a woman, so we don't erroneously classify other Alphabet People, or ex-women who are not Men, to be women.

By contrast, a Man is the gender expression of the people who don't think their gender merits any special privilege. This is generally because, from a biological or environmental standpoint, they aren't granted any- if they disagree with this, they're (by definition) a Political. This ensures we don't preclude females from being Men if they waive the privilege being female inherently grants them, but so many of them won't that it's not worth building separate facilities for them. Of course, being Men, that wouldn't bother them.

Categorizing gender identities this way solves most problems. For instance, we can continue with the 2-protected-space (changing rooms/bathrooms) system for Men and Political, where Politicals aren't allowed in the Men's room and vice versa. Again, because the gender expression of a Political is complaining (about the other users, the lack of accommodations, or whatever), it's very easy to tell who's who- if a Political goes into the Men's room and bitches about how unsafe it was (or whatever), that act reveals them to have broken the rules.

This also permits Politicals to express their gender identity fully in that space- which I agree is very important- and includes things like "complaining that males in dresses are in there leering at little girls". If a Political doesn't like that, they might choose to identify as a Man in that moment and use the room for Man, but as you'll recall they express their gender identity by not complaining about a lack of sex-specific accommodation so if they do that they're barred from [identifying as a Political and] complaining about it.

Note that, because the sexes are male and female, Men will accept that dichotomy is accurate and (if they happen to be straddling the gap a bit) will accept that the categories don't necessarily cover them (if they are mad about that, they aren't a Man, which solves the question of what gender the intersex are). So Men's clothing stores will carry male and female clothing, while clothing stores for Politicals are free to express their gender identity and have all the alternate opinions about the fact Men divide the world into two sexes that they want.

Sure, Politicals might still demand access to Man-only spaces, but that approach is not compatible with the idea that one's gender identity is a free choice. A more corrupt version of this (where it's only a free choice when it advantages Politicals) would necessitate 3 gender identities: one for Political women, one for Political non-women, and one for everyone else; or "women", "men", and "cissies" for short.

For most purposes, a woman is someone who either (a.) is of the gender identity found more commonly in people born with vulvas, or (b.) has no gender identity and has a vulva.

Christ, you'd do your cause more good by staying silent than by posting this kind of gobbledygook. The "what is a woman" thing really did one-shot that movement.

That movement is still alive and well. Criticism of it can be voiced more openly now, but it still holds key institutions and its supporters are as entrenched as always. Hardly a one-shot.

That movement is still alive and well. Criticism of it can be voiced more openly now, but it still holds key institutions and its supporters are as entrenched as always.

I hope that that doesn't change in either direction. I do not agree with what the 'gender critical' say, but I also do not trust anyone with the power to make them shut up.

For most purposes

For ONE purpose: To alleviate the dissatisfaction a small number of people feel because they remain unable to change their sex.

For any purpose that is. if you aren't interacting with the trans individual's body, any of your beeswax.

(Also, some definitions of 'biological sex' can be changed.)

Sophistry and semantics can't turn a man into a woman.

I meant the 'hormones and secondary characteristics mediated by hormones' definition, and the 'what plumbing one currently has' definition.

Why have you stopped at that point in particular? Why not say that anyone who can hold a baby is a woman, and anyone who can throw a punch is a man?

Why have you stopped at that point in particular?

Those are definitions of 'man' and 'woman' which are both biological and alterable with the tech package of our current civilisation.

Why not say that anyone who can hold a baby is a woman, and anyone who can throw a punch is a man?

Because, under that definition, almost everyone would be simultaneously both a man and a woman.

If you've carefully chosen the point where the binary is alterable to accommodate the people who both want to alter it, and to allow their alteration to qualify for the definition that you've chosen, while also upholding the binary, then I return to my original point: That particular point was chosen solely to alleviate their dissatisfaction with being unable to be accommodated through any superior means.

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the gender identity found more commonly in people born with vulvas

And what identity would that be?

'Woman'.

For most purposes, a woman is someone who either (a.) is of the gender identity found more commonly in people born with vulvas

So effeminate men are women, actually? And trans women, who aren't adopting the female gender role well enough aren't actually women?

So effeminate men are women, actually?

Not unless they identify as such.

And trans women, who aren't adopting the female gender role well enough aren't actually women?

They still identify as women, they're women.

(Perhaps you're thinking of gender presentation?)

Not unless they identify as such.

What would they be identifyng with?

(Perhaps you're thinking of gender presentation?)

If it has nothing to do with presentation, does that mean a burly lumberjack type, with no desire for hormones, surgeries, or cross dressing, and male behavior and mannerisms, is a woman, as long as he says so?

If she identifies as a woman, yes. (I doubt there are any transwomen fitting those specifications, though.)

If he is lying in order to pivot progressives to maintaining the black-and-white 1-bit oversimplification he was taught back when he was knee-high to a grasshopper, no.

(I doubt there are any transwomen fitting those specifications, though.)

Bless your heart.

If she identifies as a woman, yes.

Again, what would they be identifying with? What does this mean?

(I doubt there are any transwomen fitting those specifications, though.)

If he is lying

How would you know? How do you know that the trans women that do put on a dress and whatnot aren't lying?

Again, what would they be identifying with?

The gender identity which has a lot more people born with 🌮 than with 🍆.

Hiw would you know? How do you know that the trans women that do put on a dress and whatnot aren't lying?

It was revealed to me in a dream. I can make an educated guess; in the absence of indicators of bad faith, I give them the benefit of the doubt.

Again, what would they be identifying with?

The gender identity

So not only is a woman "anyone that identifies as a woman", not really answering the question of what a woman is, what they're identifying with is an identity, thus also not telling us anything about what the act of identifying is supposed to be, and also the type of identity they're identifying with is a gender identity, "gender" being the category that encompasses men and women.

In other words: a woman is anyone who identifies with identifying as a woman.

I appreciate the efforts to come up with a coherent answer in the aftermath of Matt Walsh's documentary, but I think you guys still have a long way ahead of you.

in the absence of indicators of bad faith

What would be an indicator of bad faith?

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I fear you already know how he's going to answer.

If two individuals are capable of interbreeding and the offspring produced are themselves reproductively viable then those two individuals are of the same species

Yet we consider canis lupus, canis familiaris (sometimes), and canis latrans all different species.

(and forget about plants, those things are total degenerates)

Most taxonomists consider canis lupus lupus (Eurasian wolves), canis lupus dingo, canis lupus familiaris and the various subspecies of north American wolf to be the same species.

It isn't clear to me why canis latrans is a categorised as a different species given that fertile hybrids exist, although the wikipedia articles imply that c. latrans/c. lupus hybridisation is much less likely in the wild than hybridisation between c. lupus subspecies.

Combining the two topics, it appears that the debate about the origin of dingos has been stilted by concern about Aboriginal sensibilities - Occam's Razor points to the dingo being descended from feral domestic dogs brought over by the ancestors of the Aborigines, but lots of people want the story to be that dingos and humans came over separately and the Aborigines domesticated the dingo themselves in Australia.

There's also the red wolf, C. rufus/C. lupus rufus... which is still the subject of a debate as to whether or not they are a real species at all, or just a coyote/grey wolf hybrid. If the latter, than latrans and lupus hybridize plenty. And even if it is a real species, it commonly interbreeds with the coyote in the wild.

And also the rather silly C. lycaon (timber wolf), which is obviously just a grey wolf with a fan club.

Do you consider Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapiens to be the same species?

Yes; Homo sapiens neanderthalensis and H. sapiens sapiens.

That definition is far too simplistic. Ring species defy it in one way. Multiple recognized species that can actually all interbreed defy it in the other direction.

That definition is far too simplistic.

I am also told that that the gender binary of "male" and "female" is "lacks nuance" and is "too simplistic".

So you heard superficially similar arguments on two very different subjects? Neat.

OK, but how do you square your definition with ring species? Would two animals which can't interbreed be of one species if there existed an intermediate animal which they can both breed?

But this definition is actually way too simplistic in a way unrelated to modern gender ideology. Ring species, etc.

That is pretty clearly not the definition in practice. Your bitch-dog, if she's large enough not to get eaten afterwards, can have coyote puppies, which can themselves breed- and there are breeds of hunting dog with partial coyote ancestry. There's a breed of cat which is partially bobcat. Most bison have ancestry from domestic cattle.

Yet coyotes and dogs are considered different species.

Are they though?

While the American Kennel Club may disapprove, In my experience coydogs are treated as just another type of dog.

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