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For all the talk about women "hitting the wall", it seems quite evident to me the average male has an even limiting shelf-life, if even that. Online is full of guys who never recovered from their loss of childhood social value. The older I get, the more I've come to believe that humans are only mostly monogamous, or rather "serially monogamous". In the absence of monogamous social constraints, the "low value males" (real or perceived) slip to the wayside and struggle to recover. This movie seems to capture that psychology (mostly) accurately.
Oof. That guy from Twitter...
This is either a man who has a deeply inaccurate perception of social reality or is hardcore engagement-baiting, or both.
If it's the former, and maybe even if it's the latter, then there's a good chance that this man's troubles with women have at least as much to do with his mental issues as it does with the transformations of puberty.
Yeah that was truly one of the most... unique tweets I've bookmarked and I keep coming back to it. I think he did hit on something big on the mental repercussions of male puberty, but there's a level of self-awareness in his nihilism that I find fascinating. His entire tweet history (monologuing about the "low value male" lifepath) reads like someone who stared into the abyss and liked what he saw.
In women's defence they stop viewing us as cute because we stop being cute. If the average man is anything like me, and I'm a very average type of a man, there's a distinct change from being silly kids who want to show them the cool thing that we discovered into randy buggers who mostly just want to see their tits and are put out that they're reluctant to oblige.
Looking at the guy's Twitter though he just reads like a contrarian shitposter. It's reminiscent of Hlynka's bit about people being so immersed in a woke-adjacent worldview that even their rejection of it is framed in the same terms. It's very "You want navel-gazing idpol gender conflict? Okay, but this time men are the victims! Ha!".
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I remember feeling like that as a teenager and young adult. Puzzled at why women suddenly treated me so different and feeling the pressure of expectations suddenly trust upon me. Then I started reading social media which only made it worse. Puberty is hard and the social expectations for men are rough, especially if you were never really prepared for them. I can believe some people would stay in that mindset for a while.
Definitely. I remember feeling that way too. It sucked. It's hard for me to imagine how a man would jump from such an experience to "most women want you to die and call u a creep weirdo" unless he absorbed exaggerations from social media. As you said, social media made it worse for you. If this guy isn't engagement baiting, then perhaps social media made it much worse for him. What one pays attention to is usually selective and emotion-dependent. If you become convinced for some reason that women despise you, it's easy to go online and find examples from various nutcases and engagement bait artists who will confirm you in that belief.
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Sorry lads, are ye all complaining about "women think little boys are cute"? Well duh, of course! That's the evolutionary hook to get us to have babies and then stick around and not abandon the kids!
Going through puberty is hard on everybody, I have to say guys do have it extra tough what with voice breaking, wispy facial hair, etc.
But if this guy is really lamenting "Now I'm in my 20s/30s/40s no big mommy want to cuddle me and treat me like liddle baby boy cutie-face and protecc", um, I think there's an entire niche fetish website or two for that, friend.
Maybe in the people-finding-you-pleasant-to-look-at sense it is. But to me as a guy, having to deal with menstruation and other female reproductive issues sounds like an order of magnitude worse.
Oh, waking up and finding you're bleeding out of your lower parts and panicking (back in the days before everyone was educated since age six about such things) was, as you can imagine, so much fun. Then "oh yeah this will happen for the better part of a week every month for the next forty years or so"?
But it's much less visible than what happens to boys. Though for girls, growing breasts does get you male attention, and creepy adult males leering at thirteen year olds is rare but does happen.
I imagine that suddenly being sexualised by your school classmates, maybe even your friends, to be a weird and difficult thing to sort out.
The male side is not all bad. I remember being pretty stoked about the rather sudden increase in strength. But the smell, the voicecracks, the fact that I was no longer "cute"... Then there was the increasing expectations that I was supposed to be confident, good at sport, have suitable levels of self control... All while experiencing new emotions with no one providing good advice on what to do. The flood of sexual desire in particular and just being told to essentially figure it out yourself, while knowing that losing control of yourself at the wrong time would be heavily punished, was distressing to say the least.
I still appreciate the strength boost. And while I am rarely cute, at least women find the physical changes attractive, assuming decent grooming and exercise practices.
I used to share Goodguy's perspective that periods are harder than anything I experienced. These days, I prefer to not compare suffering. Men and women go through different things with different pros and cons. And hopefully the advantages of adulthood makes puberty worth it.
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No, he's just, like 80% of men, ugly in the eyes of women.
Thinking that "most women want you to die and call u a creep weirdo" if you are not in the top 20% of attractive men would be a profoundly inaccurate perception of reality.
They only do that if you attempt to interact with them in any way.
They don't, actually.
Like, I don't know if you interact with some unusually unpleasant set of women, are unusually unpleasant yourself, or simply have perceptual issues, but I promise that you do not need to be in the top quintile for hotness for women to not think you're a creep for existing near them.
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We don't need to paint all of humanity with the same brush. In fact there's lots of room for individual and group-level variation here, even speaking on a purely instinctual level before nurture comes into it.
But look at the divorce rates in the developed world, once freed of all constraints of feudal society, and when operating purely on love and personal compatibility, half of all marriages do not last "till death do us part". So many dead bedrooms and married couples with kids falling out of love.
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The Wall is about sexual value, not social value, as hitting it entails a strictly biological/bodily transformation.
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Eh, I think the wall hits both sexes in the thirties. Losing all value when you hit puberty is pathetic, at least wait until your skufization.
I think men an women hit the wall 5 years apart. Historically, at 25 and 30, but today I guess most would agree you get some extra time. Although I don't know how much of that is cope.
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I think "the wall" is an expression which isn't very well defined, allowing people to argue past each other. Obviously, everyone's physical appearance declines with age, male or female. But defining "the wall" in this way, elides a significant difference between men and women: Essentially all women suffer a steep and inevitable loss of sexual attractiveness at some point in their 30s, while men do not.
I don't think the loss of sexual attractiveness is steep for essentially all women. A woman who takes good care of her body will generally see a slow decline in sexual attractiveness over time in her 30s.
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I agree and I don't. I'd say it's like this:
In other words, women suffer a steep and inevitable loss of sexual attractiveness at some point in their 30s, while men suffer a steep and evitable loss.
There's some data to suggest at least in the online dating market women dominate before 25 but afterwards the average man of the same age has higher desirability.
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In its essence the Wall is simply a biological reality - boys generally mature slower than girls but women also generally age faster then men. It's no wonder that an age gap of 3-5 years has been widespread in marriages throughout history (on both sides of the Hajnal Line, as far as I know, but again, I'm no ethnographer). And in societies where early marriage and childbirth plus enforced monogamy are the norm, the Wall practically does not matter, as the average woman hitting the Wall is already a wife and the mother of multiple children, plus soon to become a grandmother, in fact. So she already bought into the social fabric.
I suggest there are three main aspects to the Wall in the current social reality. One: there are more and more women hitting the Wall when they are single or at least childless, which then causes lots of hurt and disillusionment. Two: the worsening trends of female alcoholism, drug use, prescription pill abuse, sedentary and unhealthy lifestyles in general are all accelerating ageing, which makes the whole phenomenon worse. Three: a small but visible and loud minority of women are capable of spending a great deal of resources on anti-aging measures with notable success, which in turn creates the widespread illusion that the problem is much less worse than it actually is.
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Greater Male Variability hypothesis wins again!
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Anything is unlikely to be well-defined when any discussion of it is purged from society instantly even on the internet.
Yeah, I think that the issue here is that society is uncomfortable with differences between men and women if those differences favor men. So people have a tendency to deflect, distract, and distort when those differences are brought up.
It's interesting to note that people will readily agree to the existence of "the wall" provided it is framed in such a way as to make women seem superior to men. For example:
"Most men are creepily obsessed with youth when it comes to the women they date. Do you see the way Leonardo DiCaprio dates only young women and loses interest the moment they turn 30? Probably all men would do the exact same thing if they could."
This statement is basically identical to the way I defined the wall above. And yet one formulation will make people freak out while the other will make those same people nod their heads in agreement.
One of the pushbacks people will give is that DiCaprio's dating young women is a kind of moral failure. Therefore, your readers would disagree with it this way: many of them are morally upstanding and would only ever want to date someone with similar levels of life-experience and power. And so, they would take issue with "Probably all men..." bit.
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A lot of people seem to have this mythical idea about "attractiveness" or "good looks" or "being pretty" or "beauty" or etc. that exists as a concept outside of human judgment, as if how "attractive" someone is isn't defined by how many and how hard other people actually are "attracted" to them. I think this sort of thinking is especially encouraged in women, which is why the idea that "all women are 10s" is so common among women. And why the idea "straight men will judge you, a straight woman, as less attractive" registers as something different from "you, a straight woman, is less attractive."
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You have a point that slight reframing can change people's opinion depending on who is flattered and who is scolded, but the two statements here are not identical.
The way to reconcile this is to say that while older women are still objectively stunning and great catches, men refuse to acknowledge this because they want unequal, power-imbalanced relationships to oppress women. Over 30 women are too wise to all the manipulative tricks, they are harder to boss around, too financially and professionally stable which intimidates men etc.
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True in my case. When I was a kid, girls in my class and even grown women would come up to me - sometimes even in the supermarket - and tell me I was "cute". You better believe that stopped the very minute I hit puberty; suddenly I was invisible to half the human race!
Related anecdote: thirty-some years ago I was in a shopping mall, and an attractive woman I had never seen before smiled, with real warmth, seemingly at me. Turns out she was actually smiling at a baby being carried by a woman right behind me! Sheesh, can't win for losing.
Your appearance obviously invoked motherly feelings as long as you were just a boy, that is all. It has nothing to do with The Wall.
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