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I am NOT soliciting information on how to procure illicit substances... but I am idly curious how rationalists are getting precisely dosed psychedelics

Safety being both a major problem with illicit drugs and a major concern of rationalists, this raised an eyebrow. The simplest explanation is that the people concerned with safety aren't the people using psychedelics and that I underestimated the availability of psychedelics through whatever the normal drug-buying channels are (and perhaps self-experimenters overstate the precision of the doses?), but I'm curious about other possible explanations. Assuming commonality, which I do not take for granted, the two most plausible explanations I came up with were:

Is there a rationalist Bear (preferred name of Augustus Owsley Stanley III, another early psychedelicist who started weird and became extremely weird) out there? As I understand it, synthesizing LSD requires serious know-how and equipment, but there are surely rationalist synthetic chemists and perhaps one is willing and capable.

Dark-web sales and purity testing labs? That meshes with the techno-libertarian side of things, but I have no idea how those labs operate and I'm guessing buying drugs online practically requires you to commit a federal crime in the US, which is a pretty big hazard.

I'm guessing the simplest explanation is the correct one, to the extent that there's a connection between rationalists and psychedelics, in the first place, but if someone actually knows, I'd rather know than guess.

Jump in the discussion.

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I have extensive expertise in pharmacology,

you can target most pharmacological pathways via OTC drugs, gray-zone prescritption-free prescription drugs or phytochemicals or research chemicals. A special mention to the USSR pharmacosphere which has made amazing discoveries and as a reminder the discovery of the century (skq1)

Indeed the graal is to do your own synthesis or to know a private small scale chemist, there are dedicated communities online.

However, you'd be surprised how many drugs are available on the clear web OTC, and in many cases that is legal, or beyond legal (Vanuatu for example)

In addition to this, there are online sellers of research chemicals aka legal drug variants. And it is not just for junkies, people are buying research chemicals to medicate themselves better than the bureaucratic system (e.g. many countries do not prescribe amphetamines for ADHD, leaving humans in misery), or even to increase significantly their healthspan/lifespan, such as e.g buying NACET.

You must find the markets by yourself, the increase in censorhip on the web is record high and most things that are shared become shutdown therefore keep the secrets for yourself. As a reminder, theres people that quality of life really depends on the existence of those menaced infrastructures.

As for how to precisely dose, you use a milligram scale. The seller often provide third party lab results and even if purity is low that is extremely overatted.

The idea e.g. that crystal in breaking bad is much better at above 98% is an inept meme, there is no quality factor its just a quantity. The only possible and rarely that relevant quality aspect is the ratio of levo/dextro enantiomers, but most of the processes IIRC give you the racemic form by default.

Therefore if you only get 50% purity (generally is 98%) that simply means you need to double the dose.

The concern is wether it is cut with toxic/harmful products, adjuvants (fentanyl, etc) but that concern is overatted, one there are trusted sources and lab results, second you can easily try reagents. The only common cutting agent might be caffeine and its no big deal. Note however there are many scams online, but are avoidable with enough numeracy.

Also as a reminder, one should never take stimulants without coadministred long half life potent antioxidants such as astaxanthin and at least 600mg NAC othwerise you'll kill your dopaminergic neurons.

Also make yourself a favor and beyond worrying about drugs toxicities, worry about the toxicity of living. Any non-insane person must actively slow down its aging process.


there exists a niche way to get access to a medication, especially experimental ones or experimental off label uses, and

note: If anyone know how to get guanfacine in europe without prescriptions please tell me. And yes I know clonidine is available but its not the same. I mean I know guanfacine is on india-m_art but are those offers really prescription-free? Any two-cents @JhanicManifold ? Theres written rx only in the photos.

Well there is this one but how to know if its legit? m.indiam_ art .com/ proddetail/guanfacine-hydrochloride-2217963773.html

The safest way is to stick to well researched legal psychedelics. Legal supply chains are generally more reliable than black market supply chains. The specific psychedelic legality varies depending on your location so there is no general answer. In the US you can join one of the legal psychedelic religions and get reliable access you hallucinogens. In Oregon and Colorado many commonly illegal psychedelics are now legal. You could also order mushroom spores and grow your own. Failing any of that you can go to the darknets and do direct testing yourself or send away testing.

If you're in canada, you can just order shrooms online, though you'll have to pay by interac transfer bank-to-bank. They will arrive, and they will be real and effective. If you want to precisely dose shrooms, blend them into very small bits, then use a milligram scale to measure and make a shroom tea. That's how I do it anyway. For other psychedelics, another good source is, though if you search directly on the website you won't find them, you need to go on google, and do a specific site search like "site: ketamine", and you'll find this close to the top links, which is just straight up a vial of ketamine. I've bought lots of stuff from indiamark, including blood pressure medications, a long-term supply of antibiotics for my disaster prep bag, semaglutide, modafinil, etc. and they've all made it past the canadian border safe and sound, and were completely effective as far as I can see, though I didn't test them in a lab.

To minimize legal risk you can also get stuff like 1P-LSD, which is different enough from LSD as to be in a legal gray area, but still a pretty potent psychedelic.

though if you search directly on the website you won't find them, you need to go on google, and do a specific site search like

Thank you so much for this!! I have been looking at indiamart for years but it never occured to me there would be hidden results, how does that even make senses? Why are they hosting results if they're not meant to be shown? Doesn't make senses to me but its true.

Ketamine (Ketalar) is a dissociative anesthetic reducing fracturestreating joint dislocations repairing wounds in uncooperative individuals, such as children.


1P-LSD is in a of less of a gray area in the US. Most vendors won't ship it to the US anymore because of this. You need to show intent to consume (FAA), but just the fact it's laid out on blotter paper rather than being shipped in crystalline form might be enough to tip the scale.

Synthesizing the psychedelics themselves, or having a chemist they know do it. TiHKAL was the classic reference on this.

Dark-web sales and purity testing labs? That meshes with the techno-libertarian side of things, but I have no idea how those labs operate and I'm guessing buying drugs online practically requires you to commit a federal crime in the US, which is a pretty big hazard.

For many of the psychedelics active in the μg range, cheap affordable lab tests (low end spectroscopy) will not be sufficient to even detect the compounds of interest. They would just say that the drug is on blotter paper, for example. Expensive analysis defies the point, and it also much more closely monitored, unless you have a friend at a university research center.

Many psychedelics have unclear scheduling around the world, and can be "legally" sold "NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION". The US has the Federal Analogue Act that catches a lot of the {1V,1P,1cP,1D}-LSD prodrugs that need to be explicitly scheduled in many other countries. So for LSD (or LSD prodrugs), in the US, I will guess that people with genuinely accurate information on doses are synthesizing it themselves. This carries much higher penalties than simple possession and could be construed as manufacturing or possession with intent to distribute. I personally would not risk the ire of the famously fickle US govermental agencies just to a slightly more accurate read on the dosage of drugs.

Addenddum: Alexander Shulgin, the author of TiHKAL, obtained a DEA Schedule I license to perform his experiments.

In 1994, two years after the publication of PIHKAL, the DEA raided his lab. The agency requested that Shulgin turn over his license for violating the license's terms, and he was fined $25,000 for possession of anonymous samples sent to him for quality testing.

So people do go indeed go around shipping samples to chemists in the US for testing, though I'm guessing for purity/lack of contaminants, not concentration.

Laws are shifting fast though, and I'd expect within a decade, you might be able, under clinical contexts, to access certain psychedelics.

The police generally don't really care about psychedelics unless there is some high profile case in the news, part of the reason why it is called the narcotics department.

Chemistry is also simpler than you'd think, similar in difficulty to homebrew in many cases.

I have no deep up-to-date knowledge of this subject, particularly none applicable in the West. Read Gwern on this topic and dark markets more generally, if you want. That said, if I were interested in microdosing, I'd have

  1. looked for shops with high reputation and indication of sourcing from guys who have the technical chops, on Hydra or whatever is the current mainstream platform. This is easy in major Russian cities due to the availability of poor, high-IQ chemists and badly supervised professional equipment, so e.g. phenethylamines are a solved problem. I suppose in the West it should be easier still. For LSD, there can't be that many reputable producers, but I'd guess the competitive pressure has fixed global supply, with consistently glowing reviews. (I remember my junkie friend talking about voidgoblin of something; keep such friends around if only for darkmarket questions, this isn't like Amazon where you can kind of afford atomization).

  2. bought hardware for dosing and storing sensitive chemicals, such as precision scales, amber glass vials, I don't know.

  3. thought about diluting the dosage appropriately to increase the precision of distributing it. E.g. assuming away some inconvenient complications that I advise people look into themselves, LSD should be soluble in distilled water and pure ethanol (for preservation against microorganisms), and it's a heck of a lot easier to measure milliliters than micrograms. For something like 2C-B, decent scales from Aliexpress should do it but you can also mix it with some inert substance like sugar.

But ultimately, what you need is not objective measurement but reproducibility of trials. Your individual sensitivity determines the dose you'd desire to administer (provided microdosing does anything of value) – and you will have to approximate it by trial and error.

Re: crime and law: lol. lmao. Of course it is a hazard. Knowledge of this will also make you paranoid under the influence. The risk can be minimized but not eliminated.

Pinging @JhanicManifold.

Pinging @JhanicManifold.

Lol, I guess I have been writing a lot about how to get various psychedelics, peptides, and semaglutide.