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Friday Fun Thread for October 27, 2023

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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SBF has decided to take the stand in his own defense. I haven't been following the trial much (federal courts do not allow cameras in the courtroom), but this seems like a big mistake. Dude couldn't handle a Twitter space with Coffeezilla. How is he supposed to handle a federal prosecutor on cross-examination?

There's no way his lawyer advised him to do this, but he does have a constitutional right to present evidence in his own defense, and nobody - not even his own lawyer - can stop him from going up there and telling "his truth."

I expect some hilarious quotes on Twitter by the end of the day.

Matt Levine makes the point that basically the prosecution has already made a devastating case against him, so while it's a long shot his only hope at the moment is some variant of 'charm the jury' -- so testifying makes a certain kind of sense. Not sure whether things can get substantially worse for him, but I'm definitely looking forward to his answers to certain obvious questions.

There's no way his lawyer advised him to do this

SBF is definitely not in "lawyer up" mode:

Kaplan sustained an objection from Cohen to another question from Sassoon, directly answering if it was OK to embezzle funds.

Bankman-Fried answered anyway: Of course it wasn't, he said.

"I felt the need to answer that one," he said, to laughter in the courtroom.

At what point can an American lawyer throw up their hands and abandon their client? Can they even do that in the first place?

Yes, but it's a call for the judge to make. From the perspective of the law, everyone is entitled to competent and zealous defense in court - losing your lawyer halfway through a trial gives the defendant a strong case to appeal or even move for a mistrial. The same goes for attempts by foolish defendants to fire their lawyers midtrial or defend themself in court. Accordingly, you need a really good reason, and having an obviously guilty or difficult client doesn't cut it - they're entitled to representation too.

It depends on the case and how far along it is, and sometimes you need permission from the judge, but there are ethics rules governing this. I'm barred in Pennsylvania, and their rules are fairly representative:

Except as stated in paragraph (c), a lawyer may withdraw from representing a client if: (1) withdrawal can be accomplished without material adverse effect on the interests of the client; (2) The client persists in a course of action involving the lawyer's services that the lawyer reasonably believes is criminal or fraudulent; (3) The client has used the lawyer's services to perpetrate a crime or fraud; (4) The client insists upon taking action that the lawyer considers repugnant or with which the lawyer has a fundamental disagreement; (5) The client fails substantially to fulfill an obligation to the lawyer regarding the lawyer's services and has been given reasonable warning that the lawyer will withdraw unless the obligation is fulfilled; (6) The representation will result in an unreasonable financial burden on the lawyer or has been rendered unreasonably difficult by the client; or (7) other good cause for withdrawal exists.

The most common reasons are that the lawyer doesn't get paid or the client is completely nuts and overly demanding, but those two usually go hand in hand (the clients who expect the most are always the ones who don't want to pay). If there are pending actions you need permission from the court, and whether you'll get it depends on the first prong of this test, which is basically related to how far along the litigation is. If it's fairly early the court will usually grant a motion to withdraw for any reason. If the case is well-developed the court may be more reluctant, but things can always be rescheduled. If you're in the middle of a trial, forget it, unless there's some compelling reason like you're in the hospital. In criminal cases it's a bit harder because you may have a client sitting in jail who can't take a 6 month delay the way a civil plaintiff can.

As a side note, it's worth mentioning that some attorneys work on contingency (usually when representing tort plaintiffs), and the "haven't got paid" question gets a bit trickier since there's no payment until the case is resolved. This is why all attorneys working on contingency include clauses requiring the client to accept any settlement offer the attorney recommends. The lawyer has to put in his or her time and expenses up front, and doesn't want to waste it all on a client who's insulted by good offers because he's chasing some pipe-dream bonanza or wants to make a point win or lose. And if the client decides they want a new lawyer, the prior lawyer can put a lien on the case for the time and expenses already incurred. This makes it pretty much a given that the client will take the offer, because no lawyer wants to take a case whose value is already diminished by what the previous lawyer is owed, especially from a client who just turned down a reasonable offer. Some clients will still do this and the lawyer just has to eat the fees, but lawyers are used to having to eat time and costs anyway because there's nothing they can really do if they don't get paid, since the costs of enforcement are usually higher than the costs of letting sleeping dogs lie. This isn't only true for the general public; insurance companies are among the most notorious clients for not paying bills. Most have entire departments where people pore over legal bills looking for things to challenge. My current firm has recently outsourced our billing to a third party company run by someone who used to do this who looks at our bills to make sure they're worded in such a way that the insurance companies will pay them. If we really force the issue they will pay, but they'll also take their business elsewhere. We've even been told to bill as much as possible even if it seems unreasonable and unlikely to get paid since if they're going to cut something anyway we at least shouldn't sell ourselves short.

I see, thank you for the comprehensive answer! Seems sane enough to me, which exposure to the Motte makes mildly surprising given how everyone complains about the dysfunction of the American legal system haha

Most people who complain about the legal system (in general, not just here) are complaining about inaccurate stereotypes or misleading claims by advocates or the media*, and/or are ignoring the many Chesterton's Fences that have been erected in the course of hundreds of years of Anglo-American jurisprudence.

*See, eg, descriptions of the Citizens United case.

Lawyers actually have to ask permission from the judge to do that. If I'm recalling Ken White's podcast, that's really an area that has more to do with drug dealers or gangsters as clients--or if a lawyer is absolutely broke and leaving the profession or something.

"My client is stupid" isn't really something that American lawyers abandon clients for, or get surprised by--it's on the rare occasion a smart person needs representation that something is up

Yeah.

I thought I knew a couple historical cases where it happened, or where the lawyer obviously lost all faith and stopped trying. But I had no luck.