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PaperclipPerfector  2yr ago (text post)   28712 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 22, 2024

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Why don't they just make the OD on opiates? You just fall asleep and stop breathing.

No supplier will sell them the opiates.

I find it deeply ironic that the criminal justice system, which spends a lot of time interdicting illegal shipments of vast quantities of opiates, would have trouble getting its hands on some.

You're not wrong, though, I don't think they could get legitimate suppliers to do so over the table, while at the same time "leave a lethal dose of fentanyl and clean needles, and pretend not to notice the OD" is probably more effective than we'd like to admit, but also wouldn't work in all cases.

Is it ironic that the police confiscate a lot of guns but still have to purchase service weapons?

Seems similar enough to me.

If there was a handgun shortage, and police were going on patrol unarmed as a result, I would consider that quite ironic.

I'm not convinced; the Chinese are more than happy to sell fentanyl in massive quantities into American markets.

The states can’t order from a non DEA licensed source

Do you think the fentanyl crisis is caused by people who are legitimately ordering their fentanyl for medical purposes?

(this comment was dumb and I misread the post I was replying to)

No …

Please forgive me and disregard my post - I misinterpreted your comment and saw it in the wrong context.

Probably because finding a doctor who will assist in this request is both necessary and difficult.

Doesn't a doctor (or a nurse) need only to put needle in convict and actual dose injected by executioner?

Import a doctor from Mexico as a consultant. Problem solved.

The immediate, sarcastic, rejoinder that leaps to mind is "just re-brand this as an abortion, no problems then!"

But I think that if you have rights of conscientious objection to participating in or assisting abortions (and you should have such rights), then you should also have rights of conscientious objection to participating in or assisting executions.

The AMA prevents even reading an ECG to make sure the heart is stopping for executions because that is a violation of the duty of a medical practitioner and so they impose this on their members even if there were doctors willing to assist at executions, but if you don't want to read an ECG to make sure the heart is stopping during an abortion you are a monster who must be forced to do your duty (to be fair, the AMA doesn't go this far and will respect conscientious objection).

But is there anyone doing papers and studies like the below for executions, rather than abortions?

We argue that, in certain circumstances, doctors might be professionally justified to provide abortions even in those jurisdictions where abortion is illegal. That it is at least professionally permissible does not mean that they have an all-things-considered ethical justification or obligation to provide illegal abortions or that professional obligations or professional permissibility trump legal obligations. It rather means that professional organisations should respect and indeed protect doctors’ positive claims of conscience to provide abortions if they plausibly track what is in the best medical interests of their patients. It is the responsibility of state authorities to enforce the law, but it is the responsibility of professional organisations to uphold the highest standards of medical ethics, even when they conflict with the law. Whatever the legal sanctions in place, healthcare professionals should not be sanctioned by the professional bodies for providing abortions according to professional standards, even if illegally. Indeed, professional organisation should lobby to offer protection to such professionals. Our arguments have practical implications for what healthcare professionals and healthcare professional organisations may or should do in those jurisdictions that legally prohibit abortion, such as some US States after the reversal of Roe v Wade.

Try swapping in "execution" for "abortion" there and see if you think the argument still holds good. Even if execution is illegal in some jurisdictions, doctors might be professionally justified to assist at them. Professional organisations like the AMA have a responsibility to uphold the highest standards of medical ethics even when they conflict with the law.

When doctors help the state to punish and eliminate its enemies, atrocities often follow.

The word "often" makes this statement true but vacuous. Otherwise, if you're trying to suggest that getting doctors involved makes things worse, I'd like to see some evidence other than your say-so.

Also, I'd take issue with describing criminals as the state's enemies, at least the kind of criminals who get the death penalty in America. They're everyone's enemies.

When doctors help the state to punish and eliminate its enemies, atrocities often follow. Doctors understandably refuse to take the first step onto the slippery slope to becoming grisly technicians of torture and death.

Doctors, as licensed professionals, are owned by the state. If the state wants to say "you want a doctor's license, you have to assist in executions", it could. The doctors' only recourse would be to leave the state. Which, granted, they probably would for this.

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