Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 275
- 2
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
(1) Buy an ordinary fuel-efficient hatchback
(2) Have a body shop cut out the back half of the passenger compartment and weld the rest of the car back together
(3) Get a super-fuel-efficient two-seat car
Real-life example (pre-modification fuel-economy comparison)
Would you do it?
My hatchback already gets 60mpg, so I think the storage is more valuable than marginal increases.
More options
Context Copy link
I would not do it since a 2-seater should ideally be an all-wheel or rear-wheel drive. There is no point in looking like a cheap 2 seater vehicle anyway. I drive a fwd hatchback and like it but making it something it is not makes it neither a good 2-seater nor a good hatchback. The point of a hatchback is a cheap, reliable, 4 seater that is fuel efficient.
More options
Context Copy link
Why not just buy this little guy instead? Same price, low miles, only ten years old, intentionally designed to be that size, and it's even kinda cute. Come to think of it, I ought to buy my wife one of these.
The two-seat ForTwo gets worse fuel economy than the five-seat Mirage, and requires premium gasoline to boot.
I'm not arguing that a ForTwo is a particularly good vehicle, I'm saying that getting a 30 year-old chopped up Geo Metro to simulate a ForTwo is a stupid idea.
With regard to a ForTwo relative to a Mirage, it is simply inconceivable that you're going to save enough money on gas to make up for the initial price difference. If someone wants a cheap, economical two-seater, a $4K used ForTwo is a legitimate option, a new Mirage isn't a competitor to that in any meaningful sense.
I used the Metro only to show that the idea was realistically possible to execute (e. g., on a new Mirage). I wasn't suggesting that the Metro was comparable to a new Mirage.
OK, then my answer is that I would not pay an extra $15K to get a chopped-up Mirage instead of just buying a used ForTwo.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
No. I need to ferry around lots of people and things; having less space in the car makes it borderline useless.
Besides, this is retarded. There are many very small cars to choose from, without any of the extra hassle and just as fuel-efficient as the end result of that hack-job. And if all you want is to drive around yourself, no passengers and no cargo, then you may as well get a motorcycle or one of those scooter-sized cars that barely have an enclosed cabin.
Maybe in Europe, but not really in the US, I think.
Those aren't very convenient in winter.
"Miata is always the answer" is a meme for a reason.
The 2024 Miata's fuel economy is even worse than the ForTwo's—35 miles per gallon of premium gasoline. The Miata's previous incarnations are no better.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Are you sure importing one isn't going to be cheaper than going to a body shop?
Cars younger than 25 years can't be imported to the US.
Sounds like a 90's VW Lupo is just the thing for you then!
Zero to sixty in 18 seconds sounds inadequate for merging onto a highway with posted speed of 65 mi/h. Even the unmodified Mirage can manage an 11-second time.
Also, it's my understanding that obtaining parts for imported cars often is difficult and expensive. That goes double for imported cars that are 25 years old.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Where's the post-modification economy? I can't seem to find it.
No fuel-economy measurement is given on the for-sale page. But it seems obvious that reducing the car's weight in this manner will improve its fuel economy by reducing its rolling resistance. (I admit that the worsened aerodynamics may cut into that improvement somewhat.)
Not questioning the logic, just wanted to get a sense of bang for the buck. The idea feels a little galaxy-brained to me, but if it doubles the fuel-economy, then I can see the reasoning behind it. If you get a 10% icrease, it doesn't feel worth it.
Beyond financial considerations (depending on your lifestyle): You get the satisfaction of no longer being forced to lug around three extra seats that you literally never use. Parallel parking on city streets becomes easier. And you may be able to fit more cars into your house's driveway.
I use them for storage all the time.
More options
Context Copy link
My point exactly:
Pea brain: Buy a normal car with a decent fuel economy.
Normal brain: Buy a small car. Pick a diesel if you really want low fuel usage.
Galaxy brain: Buy a normal car and cut off it's back, hoping it will reduce fuel consumption.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Absolutely not, because although I'm not a car nut in the least, I still want a ride that won't scare the hoes.
based af. I myself would not do this, either I can afford an aston martin vantage in the future or I drive a hatch in shame when hoes are around, no point in making my hatch into a hackjob vantage.
It's going to be 7+ years till I have the dough for an Aston Martin, and by then it'll drive itself lol.
But yeah, that thing is an abomination, and I wonder if it even delivers on its promises. I'd rather import one of those toy Japanese cars if I'm that crazy about fuel economy.
I hope I can own one in like 3. But girls do not care about bad cars, they are not actively repulsed by the car but you being insecure about the car. Sure driving an Aston Martin (future me, please get your startup to a point where you drive one) will add a lot but driving a bad car is not a complete deal breaker in most cases, though if you feel insecure about it, it will tank your chances. Plus I can get away with it since I am 23 (almost 24 now) and do not visit nightclubs, in case I do get money soon, I would just stick to cabs, problem solved.
An AM is frankly excessive unless you're trying to pickup supermodels or the daughters of multimillionaires (in USD). Even a humble BMW will more than suffice for signalling purposes after one point, it's not like most girls have the prices and desirability of cars memorized right?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link