domain:philippelemoine.com
FoundViaTwitter
9hr ago
What exactly is objectionable about his post? Personally, I think it's too emotionally charged and credulously accepting of the news story, but it doesn't seem very different in style and tone from other things I've read over the last week. It's just left-wing and not right-wing.
Granted, I'm not familiar with BurdensomeCount's other posts.
felis-parenthesis
9hr ago
The autopsy report found 11 ng/mL of Fentanyl and 5.6 ng/mL of Norfentanyl. The story I've read online (which I'm not qualified to judge) goes like this:
DUI blood test sometimes show that drivers have 11 ng/mL of Fentanyl in their blood. Habitual users build up protective tolerance and can remain functional despite a level of Fentanyl in their blood that would be rapidly fatal to a naive user. The level of Norfentanyl adds nuance. The typical overdose death of a naive user occurs before their body can metabolise Fentanyl to Norfentanyl. The presence of Norfentanyl proves that George Floyd had a protective tolerance and had had a high level of Fentanyl in his blood for a while, giving his body time to metabolize it.
This is a load bearing part of the criminal prosecution of Derek Chauvin. Without Floyd's habit and tolerance, 11 ng/mL is a lethal dose, explaining away Floyd's death and handing Chauvin a get out of jail free card. It is important context for understanding policing in America. The police have to deal with junkies who are high on pain killing drugs at the time of their arrest, putting the police at risk of wild, random violence.
Had the Fentanyl story been pure invention, intended to muddy the waters, then keeping it alive by calling him "Fentanyl Floyd" would indeed be just obnoxious boo-lighting. But it is a vital part of the story. Without it, a nerdy, timid forger is attempting to quietly pass his $20 bill, gets caught and surrenders without resistance. Then he is knelt on and killed for being Black. That is a very different story. Trying to airbrush Fentanyl from the story is waging culture war.
Mantergeistmann
9hr ago
the fact that such a story is even believable speaks volumes
I'll be honest with you, that's one of my least favorite arguments, and says more about the sayer than the situation. "The fact that I'm able to believe something terrible about my outgroup, even if false, is just another indication about how bad they are!" It's tiresome whether it's the Left, the Right, the Orange, the Purple, the Monarchists, or the Revolutionaries. "I may be wrong about this" should be cause for self-reflection about other cases where oneself may be wrong--"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken"--not as an excuse to double-down against the group being unfairly maligned.
After all, if my hunch/info turns out to be incorrect, and the situation as originally presented was 100% truthful, would you say to me (with sincerity) "That's alright: the fact that you considered it believable that the news might be misrepresenting the situation or jumping the gun speaks volumes about how terrible and inaccurate the reporting usually is on these things?"
FoundViaTwitter
9hr ago
five years ago this story would have been seen as too absurd for The Onion.
No, it wouldn't be, and that's the point. I've cited some examples of the Obama administration deporting U.S. citizens.
naraburns
nihil supernum
9hr ago
Our legal system (England) is the most imitated in the world, almost all of the Commonwealth uses something deriving from it.
I mean, in some sense we're all just derivatives of the Romans, or maybe the Greeks. But you complain about American "sovereign immunity" while living in a country that still has a King, and lacks meaningful protection of some very important basic rights. That seems relevant. As I suggested, your post would have been much better to simply focus on the perceived failings of the United States government (which many Americans would agree are many!). Taking the position that the UK government exhibits moral superiority here was an overreach at best, both undermining your point and your credibility.
self_made_human
Grippy socks, grippy box
9hr ago
"Innocent until proven guilty" might work in the legal system, but the medical one goes by "if you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras".
Please pull the other one guvna', it's got bells on it.
BurdensomeCount
—Your em dash is showing...
10hr ago
But our trash legal system is also the most imitated in the world, as when it does work
No. Our legal system (England) is the most imitated in the world, almost all of the Commonwealth uses something deriving from it. Your system is a derivative of ours and as one of the things England actually does extremely well I think it is something our country should take great pride in and not let it be appropriated by some 250 year old pretender.
I miss the old BC,
straight from Canary Wharf BC,
the Alawite rule BC
I hate the new BC,
This shtick got old BC,
Breaks all the rules BC,
thinks the mods are fools BC,
Ahem. Count, the mods are not retarded. I might often be quite entertained by your shenanigans, but they're better reserved for /r/drama, and being occasionally amusing isn't sufficient to let you off.
Hell, I was going to let you off, but then I remembered I have to actually set an example every once in a while, and I took a look at your moderation log. You have that one AAQC to your credit, and a laundry list of warnings, temp bans, and even a perma ban that was cut down because someone spoke up for you.
The second-last entry is "More baiting. Really should permaban him next time."
I really dislike permabanning people. Hate to do it, I'm a bleeding heart that way. I will find a middle ground and say you can sit in the corner for another 60 days, and consider that lenient. In the meantime, you can consider opening a bait-and-tackle store or drying your copious tears with stacks of money, or whatever it is finance people do. Consider this provisional, if the other mods want to extend it, or make it permanent, I'm not going to say a word.
FoundViaTwitter
10hr ago
I've seen one of two reactions online:
-
He wasn't a real "American". He was a foreigner and will always be, no matter how long he'd been in the country and regardless of whatever papers he had. "They all gotta go". (This is a fringe online talking point.)
-
Immigration is so fucked up in this country, especially after Biden, that I can't be bothered to care if mistakes are made. We need to deport as many illegals as possible, and if that results in citizens, permanent residents, and legal visitors being caught up in the net once in a while, so be it.
Of course, these reactions are contingent on the person believing the story is true. I'm skeptical, given the update that @Mantergeistmann provided and the fact that Leon doesn't pattern match the type of person who would be deported to a third country - in this case, to Guatemala rather than Chile. My understanding is that the people who have been deported to third countries - Eswatini, South Sudan, etc. - are people with serious criminal convictions whose home country won't take them back.
By the way, even assuming the story is true, this has happened plenty of times in prior administrations:
Immigration crackdown also snares Americans
A growing number of United States citizens have been detained under Obama administration programs intended to detect illegal immigrants who are arrested by local police.
In a spate of recent cases across the country, American citizens have been confined in local jails after federal immigration agents, acting on flawed information from Department of Homeland Security databases, instructed the police to hold them for investigation and possible deportation.
American teen mistakenly deported to Colombia returns to Texas
naraburns
nihil supernum
10hr ago
All in all as I learn more about the Law as it is in both the UK, other systems like European Civil Law and the US, I am slowly being drawn to the inescapable conclusion that the American legal system, for all its grandiose self professed claims, is a steaming pile of shit.
On one hand, I substantially agree. Our legal system has always pretty much always been "trash," if "trash" means "governed primarily by politics and judicial self-interest rather than reason or the rule of law." That is just judicial review in a nutshell, to say nothing of our deference to bureaucracy, including "law enforcement." The old Ben Franklin saw about only a virtuous people being capable of freedom seems to be true!
But our trash legal system is also the most imitated in the world, as when it does work, it seems to work better than any other in history. Its failure modes are... still being explored, I suppose we can say. I would even so rank our legal system well above that of any nation that jails its own citizens for making bad posts on social media. Ironic, given the heat of your own post here! America may get many things wrong, but we're not the only ones.
(Aside: your post has been reported as both "boo outgroup" and as "antagonistic." I think you do bring some unnecessary heat and smear the not-very-specifc group "Americans" a little too liberally, but I will chalk it up to reflexive participation in long English tradition. Partly because your next ban is very likely to be permanent, and I don't feel like this particular post quite warrants it. But it's probably worth noting that the whole substance of your post, including a significant portion of your maybe-even-genuine outrage, could have been expressed pretty easily without either the heat or the jingoism.)
Mantergeistmann
10hr ago
Just finished Master & Commander. It was very good! I found the writing style a bit slow to read, but it was a page-turner all the same.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
10hr ago
I have no idea why you're still allowed to post here.
The forum is undoubtedly better with his presence. In the words of Hitchcock, “the more successful the villain, the more successful the picture”.
BurdensomeCount
—Your em dash is showing...
10hr ago
Interesting. Lets wait and see where things settle down. But honestly, the fact that such a story is even believable speaks volumes about the situation on the ground, five years ago this story would have been seen as too absurd for The Onion.
You claim to be a rich Pakistani or something who lives in the UK and despises the native English people which is so on the nose for the place that I honestly think you're probably just some leftist troll getting your kicks here.
I have actually met in person multiple active posters from this site. I assure you I am not lying about who I am. And no, I don't despise the native English.
And no, I am not trolling.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
10hr ago
Unfortunately I seem to have ended up in a situation where even when I give my genuine views on things I get accused of baiting
Yes, how unfortunate. Who could have possibly predicted this would be the result of your posting style?
BurdensomeCount
—Your em dash is showing...
10hr ago
Who said it's bait? Unfortunately I seem to have ended up in a situation where even when I give my genuine views on things I get accused of baiting. "Innocent until proven guilty" is an ancient legal maxim, that applies to all (or should at least, much to Mr. Leon's misfortune).
Pasha
Defend Kebab
10hr ago
It wasn’t chilling, but it was definitely enraging to watch the initial videos without any context other than police brutality. A bunch of cops slowly killing a man who seemed helpless while dozens of people around begging them to stop. After the body cam was released (showing he is high as a kite, very violent, already losing his breath due to the drugs etc) I swore to myself to never again come to emotional conclusions from video content without A LOT of autistic context
ActuallyATleilaxuGhola
Axolotl Tank Class of '24
10hr ago
"14 heartbreaking photos that will make you say fuck having laws and borders and shit"
I have no idea why you're still allowed to post here. You seem like one of those posters who is good a just barely toeing the line to avoid getting permabanned.
Your schtick is writing in a smug, antagonistic way to try to rile up the wignats (who sadly always take the bait). You claim to be a rich Pakistani or something who lives in the UK and despises the native English people which is so on the nose for the place that I honestly think you're probably just some leftist troll getting your kicks here. I would actually like to read the opinions of a rich Pakistani who immigrated to the UK and hasn't really assimilated for whatever reasons, but you only seem to post to try to start flamewars.
The mods apparently won't ban you for being intentionally irritating and disingenuous. I wish other posters would stop feeding you.
On a different note, credit where credit's due. You've got some mad trolling skills. You know exactly which buttons to push on the userbase here. Easily one of the most effective trolls this site has seen. Trolling is a art, after all. Hat tip.
zeke5123a
10hr ago
So we now believe the victim who identified Floyd is lying because an officer involved happened to be dirty?
self_made_human
Grippy socks, grippy box
10hr ago
I have to give it to you, if this is bait, then it's well done. From most other commenters, I would have assumed that they had genuine, sincere concern.
Mantergeistmann
10hr ago
I suppose it depends on who you believe: the fellow's family, or the Guatemalan government
The Guatemalan Migration Institute said in a statement that it coordinates with ICE on all deportations from the United States and that no one matched Leon’s name, age or citizenship.
So! If your story as presented is full and true... it's absolutely god-awful, a horrible overreach, and there should be some sort of massive legal reaction against the levers of power that made it happen. If not... well, it's yet one more reason why I find it difficult to get worked up when I'm told about a horrible news story with political implications, especially a breaking one.
Mantergeistmann
10hr ago
I've seen it said that with your standard press-releases-as-articles, most papers will just chop it up a bit and regurgitate it. The Daily Mail will send someone round to interview neighbors for a juicy take on it instead.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
10hr ago
where is the shame?
I simply don’t have any!
My shame response has always been rather attenuated (in certain contexts) compared to the population average. Probably part of what makes it so easy to resist the “right-thinking” social consensus on immigration.
Anyway, no, sob stories won’t guilt us into not having borders and immigration enforcement procedures.
Sending one guy to Guatemala doesn't exclude you from humanity.
Expelling people from the wrong place, from the wrong tribe, is deeply human. It is an ancient practice committed by almost everyone who can and often attempted by those who can't.
The Native Americans massacred civilians in sneak attacks and gruesomely tortured them for being on their land. Uncivilized behaviour but not that unreasonable.
The US has been extremely, extremely generous to non-Americans. You can show up in America and make billions of dollars, wield great political influence. This wouldn't be allowed in some other countries, there'd be methods and attitudes in place preventing foreigners from, say, becoming mayor of their largest city. Mamdani's not mayor yet but he's the most serious contender. America shifting from 85% Openness to foreigners down to 60% is not an apocalyptic, abysmal disaster for humanity or even America.
Xenophobia looks like the wrong people (regardless of citizenship or qualities) being told to get out now - without their property or any legal right of appeal. Or skipping expulsion and moving onto enslavement or liquidation. Real hostility to foreigners does not have courts discussing the issue of 'discrimination of national origin', unless it's to query as to why there isn't more discrimination. Real contempt for foreigners doesn't have foreign aid being cut (foreign aid?), it has warships negotiating unequal treaties and unloading huge quantities of narcotics.
The UK has gone from world leader to third rate power in large part to its immense openness and generosity to outsiders, many of whom end up in social housing, deal drugs, rob or scam. There's a huge DEI structure to patronize and enrich foreigners. They're spending billions of pounds feeding and housing refugees in hotels yearly. Many other countries (still incredibly open by historical standards) would've noped out of that and sent them away or had them dispersed. A country cannot stay at such high openness, openness to the point of self-sacrificing xenophilia, forever. It's an unstable policy and it's not unreasonable for a country under pressure to retreat from such high openness.
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