domain:experimental-history.com
But you can't put that in words without saying what your folk community is, and (for different reasons) neither British nor American wannabe-ethno-nationalists can do that without stepping on rakes, so they use a pictorial dogwhistle.
This is actually extremely easy to do, it's European-descended. These cities were formerly almost-entirely European descended and now European-descended are in many cases minorities in these same places. Many cities and public beaches which were very nice places are no longer nice places, everyone knows that so the images strike a cord. You can't pretend this didn't happen, you're essentially left saying don't believe your lying eyes.
I basically agree with your last point. My own criticism of the meme is that it whitewashes 50s-90s culture which led us to exactly where we are today. Going back to the 80s is not any sort of solution. The rot was endemic to that culture as well, it just had not yet led to the demographic displacement that the meme is lamenting but it was already on the path. A 1970s muscle car is not a good symbol for "the good times" because it's more symbolic of the vapid changes in American culture that led us where we are today.
That's how Anglo-Americans traditionally (read pre-CRA) viewed it. That's not how continental Europeeans ever viewed it.
I think the question has merit. Otherwise Mill wouldn't have had to invent the Harm Principle to solve it.
Consider a church that a large majority of your society attends (let's call it the catholic church, for "universal"). Let's say this catholic church has formal processes that would impose specific penalties on its members if they associate with people deemed unsavory by the institution. This is not a government institution, and yet it possesses large powers of censorship through this simple application of freedom of association.
How is this possible if there is no tension between keeping political expression unsuppressed and the ability for people to freely exclude anyone they desire from their lives?
Libertarians discard the primacy of political expression and focus on property rights. Liberals discard the primacy of freedom of association and focus on political expression. Hence vastly different reactions to some dudes deciding to setup ethnic enclaves innawoods.
But neither of these approaches realizes the original Liberal promise that both political and social freedoms can be fully realized with no contradiction. Because it was a lie.
Tanista
16hr ago
Given this, the best solution is backing one side to break the stalemate and take over, the quicker tge better.
What does this mean in practice? Where do the Palestinians go?
SubstantialFrivolity
I'm not even supposed to be here today
16hr ago
Yeah, whenever people come out of the woodwork to say things like "Meyers-Briggs is complete nonsense" I roll my eyes, because it's not. Like you, I am certainly willing to believe that the framework is not perfect. Not only is any framework going be imperfect for the reasons you said, but with MBTI specifically some of the categories seem poorly defined. The introvert/extrovert and think/feel axes are really strong in their ability to gauge what a person is like, but the others not so much. So yeah, the system is flawed. But on the other hand, most people I've known tend to get consistent results on tests, and people with similar results truly do behave similarly. So despite the flaws, there is truth to be found there, and the "Meyers-Briggs is complete nonsense" claim simply does not withstand scrutiny under the available evidence.
The_Nybbler
In the game of roller derby, women aren't just the opposing team; they're the ball.
16hr ago
Trump did, and the Episcopal Church shut down their refugee organization so they didn't have to help.
IGI-111
God was a dream of good government.
16hr ago
Logos, as a construct of wisdom, is surely non-biological.
Why?
“representatives based on population” are examples of procedures unrooted in biological instinct [...] you could see that happen in humans 100k years ago, or in primate groups
Iceland's parliament is about 11 centuries old. And Mesopotamia had primitive forms of democracy. It's quite literally as old as History. I see no reason to assume it's not as viscerally embedded in human nature as autocracy.
All three systems of government seem to fade into the eons in this way.
Fascism is about Garibaldimaxxing, to the fullest extent,
Fascism is ultranationalist, that's true, but it has neither a monopoly on nationalism, nor on ultranationalism, making this not a sufficiently defining characteristic to base a whole political analysis on, in my view.
Goldenpath
16hr ago
I instinctively pictured the boss from Office Space.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
16hr ago
I wish I had it in me, but while I can pump out worldbuilding fluff for hours on end, actual stories with characters and plot are beyond me.
thejdizzler
16hr ago
Looks like Russians have just stormed into the center of both Pokrovsk and Kupyansk. Maybe the Ukrainian collapse has actually begun?
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
16hr ago
"This is what they took from us" works at three levels.
The level it is okay to talk about, and is a real case where something has been lost, is that young people looked better in swimsuits back then because nobody was fat. In that specific sense, society is just uglier than it used to be. (If you look at fully clothed photos like high school yearbooks then the effect is less stark because increased wealth means people have better teeth, hair etc. which partially makes up for the fattitude.)
The level where there is an obvious dogwhistle is the mix of skin colours. I think you can make a case that something has been lost here - the idea that there used to be a time (outside a few cosmopolitan megacities) where you could assume that everyone you meet is a member of your folk community. But you can't put that in words without saying what your folk community is, and (for different reasons) neither British nor American wannabe-ethno-nationalists can do that without stepping on rakes, so they use a pictorial dogwhistle. Given the actual demographics of both the US and the UK, skin colour is a good enough proxy for folk community membership for the implied statistical inference to be valid. But the folk community is not actually defined by skin colour and the only people who actually care about the mix of skin colours on the beach as such are white supremacists.
The last point is the silly one. The period between the post-WW2 cleanup and the oil crisis was a period when the core western countries felt prosperous (even though normal-ass economic growth means that we are a lot richer than that now), so vibes-based economics associates the aesthetic of that period with material prosperity. A Tesla Model 3 is superior in every respect to a 1970 model year muscle car, but seeing a 1970 muscle car in the background of a beach photo creates a vibe of "this was a rich society" whereas a Tesla Model 3 in the background doesn't. The only thing that has actually been lost is in your head.
self_made_human
Grippy socks, grippy box
16hr ago
Well, I'm not a psychologist, so I might have misremembered that factoid. Never heard MB being used in a healthcare setting, last I heard, it had been a mild fad in HR.
Even OCEAN is of limited utility.
wayfarer
16hr ago
everybody else will work for me and I can do nothing, and the rightist fantasy is: I will be able to do as much work as I want to.
various warlord/king fantasies seem to be of "everybody else will work for me and I can do nothing" variety in right-wing decoration, combined with fantasy of being able to execute people you do not like
with no indicator that they know how much effort it would take to be warlord/king or warlord king
very often these people would very clearly fail at being either (and frankly, competition to be a successful warlord would be so strong that person managing it would be at least some minor CEO or sport star or celebrity in our society)
“I will be a warlord” is a very different type of fantasy than “I will be a poet”. Both fantasies, both silly, but silly in different ways.
poet one is not really "I can do nothing"
birb_cromble
16hr ago
Is the man in suspenders a slender, bearded twenty-something man from Brooklyn, or an overweight septuagenarian?
self_made_human
Grippy socks, grippy box
16hr ago
I meant to add that the (presumably superior) ASI in the basement universe are intentionally killing off competition. What else are they doing? Nobody in the setting knows! Which excuses you, the author, from having to know or care about at least one set of eldritch deities. This is a highly subjective opinion, but I'd find that more narratively satisfying than the universe somehow prohibiting intelligence above a certain threshold.
I'd recommend you actually write something in your setting, you have at least one guaranteed reader (me), maybe even two or three haha. Just put it out there, I spent many years idly making things up in my head before I bit the bullet and put pen to paper.
wayfarer
16hr ago
is the only reason you hold your political views because you expect to personally benefit?
not only, but it is surely one of crucial parts
and I do not see it as a really bad thing
Gaashk
17hr ago
ISTP
I was really into it for a while, due to having a less common personality for a woman, and hearing a lot of "women ___" statements that don't really apply to me, and trying to express why.
My main objection, in comparison to OCEAN, is the Sensing/iNtuition dichotomy. I'm both high openness and a concrete (rather than more abstract/symbolic) thinker. For instance, when I paint, I prefer plein air or studio painting rather than stories -- I want to capture the thing in front of me. But I also spend a lot of time reading people theorizing and predicting, so shrug, I think high Openness/concrete captures this better than S/N
Rov_Scam
17hr ago
Well, you might inherit, if you're lucky enough to have been born first (or be the eldest surviving son).
Even assuming that this is true, could they really have done it without support or at least acquiescence+aftercare from the US?
yes
in similar way as they blow up long-range bombers in airfields deep in Russia
The way the adjacent Baltic states froze Germany out of the investigation and conclusions seems implausible if it was a Ukrainian solo gig that they were not appraised
why Baltic states would need USA pressuring them to approve of Nord Stream being destroyed?
Poland and/or Baltic states outright running "lets blow up Nord Stream" is relatively reasonable, happy obstruction of German investigation is my default expectation here.
I expect that Poland was not running/helping outright but I would not be surprised if operation was detected and deliberately ignored.
Or maybe they had so low opinion of Germany that they forwarded warning expecting that Germany will fail to stop it anyway.
(or was not detected at ll by them)
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
17hr ago
Nah, there's plenty of more modern stuff the kids like too. Every singer at that concert I took her to was under 30. The kids at her school are into country, of all things, but she likes singers like Megan Maroney, who is also late 20's. And then there's the wierd crossover ones, like Yung Gravy, a 20-something white rapper known for sampling old songs.
And that's without even getting into all the limpid, easy listening rap they know will just make me start ranting about DMX.
In my day our rappers were all hardened criminals, I tell you what.
wayfarer
17hr ago
I assure that not only communists have reason to fear if people in power can execute/imprison random people with "they were communists" excuse
In the same way not only anti-communists or capitalists had reason to fear communists - they executed some actual communists under one pretext or another. Or how not all people accused of rape, murder, antisemitism or racism actually were guilty.
(if people in power can execute/imprison people under some pretext, then you WILL get some people going "this woman is pretty, I will tell her to fuck me and threaten to execute her family under $PRETEXT if she refuses" or doing some other kind of abuse, which reasonable people will try to escape)
If you expect that all people are guilty of what they got accused - are you a Japanese judge?
guajalote
17hr ago
She has a three plus hour video series where she goes over what she considers to be the "evidence" in favor of her claim. She has "checked" and is convinced by the "evidence."
oats_son
17hr ago
I had an argument (I'd guess this is what spurs many top level comments) about tattoos, and how much you're allowed to judge people for them.
My argument was that I think tattoos are a sign of distasteful character and went something like
- First and foremost, they're ugly and I don't like them
- They indicate a higher level of criminality proportional to how many visible tattoos they have, along with other negative associations like substance abuse, domestic violence, and general "roughness"
- Anyone who gets a tattoo is comfortable with associating themselves in this way
- Tattoos are expensive and painful to get and permanent
- They betray a significant deviation from my values (likes tattoos vs dislikes tattoos) and thus give me an "other" signifier for that person
These, I think, give me plenty of room to be wary of strangers with tattoos, especially where I am located in a pretty methed up rural area. The beautiful thing is that it's not a protected characteristic, so you can actually judge it as much as you like!
The other party's argument was
- It's just a superficial fashion choice that doesn't mean anything so it's wrong to judge people for it
I actually don't think I could agree with that, ever! While it is more true the more "normal" people get tattoos, it is still a fact that pretty much any mugshot I see of any likely violent incarcerated individual is going to have a ton of them. They are also something you have to go out of your way to get, and thus, they make a decent indicator that you shouldn't trust someone if they're in the Venn diagram of "has tattoos".
But now I'm curious what is acceptable to judge people about. Let's say you're walking to your workplace or your university class or your school and you see, purposely avoiding anything like a bumper sticker or T-shirt that makes any more clearly identifiable statement or symbol:
- A man or woman with dyed blue hair
- A man or woman with a mohawk
- A man or woman with a septum piercing
- A man wearing suspenders
- A man wearing no suspenders, no belt, and wearing tight pants (this was me in high school)
- A woman wearing suspenders
- A man wearing sagging pants that show his underwear
- A man with golden teeth
- A white man or woman with dreadlocks
- A man chewing tobacco
- A woman chewing tobacco
Or perhaps we could change the context of how you're seeing this person. Let's say you work at a gas station or other commonly-visited public-facing third-place and you see people
- Walking a significant distance to and from the location
- Walking with bad posture
- Visiting the location multiple times in one night
- Visiting the location alone
- Visiting the location with their wife and all 7 of their kids
- Buying lots
- Buying little
- Talking a lot
- Talking very little
- Making good eye contact
- Making little eye contact
- Slurring their words
- Having proper diction
- Talking to other coincidental visitors (strangers to you) at the location
The stance of the refuses-to-judge-on-tattoos individual is a little perplexing to me. I'm certain that I am similarly perplexing to him. But for me, pretty much all of these, plus other considerations like height, sex, and age add up to an impression of the character and of the threat level of said individual. Personally, I think everyone has this kind of unconscious thinking, even if they don't know it or if they have suppressed it significantly. My guess is that people left of center tend to be uncomfortable with associating behaviors like that with anything negative, even though they are not protected characteristics, and even though they almost certainly do it themselves for various things, like word choice (do you say gay people or do you say queer people?), vehicle choice (drives a truck...), or sex and likely choice of gender.
How much should you judge people? On what should you judge them by? Is there something you think it's wrong to judge people for?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
17hr ago
Your approach isn't bad. If I had to make a suggestion: have the universe be a simulation itself, and sufficiently-advanced ASI poses an unacceptable risk of breaking out of the sandbox or requiring too much in the way of computational resources. The Simulation Hypothesis plays a more explicit role in my own novel, but at the end of the day, it's perfectly fine to have even the AI gods sit around and moan about how they can't have it all.
But that's already the case! The whole scenario is simulated using the extremely limited bandwith of my own head, and I obviously cannot simulate what an extremely advanced and large AI will do. Introduce one or two layers of narrative, and I have cults and social trends offering different ways of dealing with the fact that their universe has no organic history, could end at any moment, and all of them are figments of someone's imagination.
Alright, yeah, downside of the whole scenario being me indulging myself with no external aspirations is that there's no pressure to separate worldbuilding from commentary. The whole universe-is-a-simulation aspect is minor and pretty much just me having fun, so it's not all there is to it, but I admit I spend quite some time toying with the idea.
The bigger problem is that people actually said they'd lead discussion groups at the leftist commune, but nobody actually said that under a right wing government, they'd be a warlord. The whole thing is someone guessing what the right wing equivalent would be--no right wing person really said it.
As leftism is about changing society and being right wing isn't, I suspect that this is not the answer you'd get, and you'd get something more like "Job under a right wing government? Nothing any government can do about that. Maybe I'd make some more money and live in a better place if the economy is better."
Whoa, you must have some problematic associations with suspenders! I hope you feel sorry.
I don't know that I've ever seen anyone wear them seriously except for Amish, my dad, and the only lesbian in my class when she went to a school dance once.
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