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Throwaway05
1d ago
They were hunting down and putting J6 people in jail YEARS later.
Meanwhile seems to have been no particular effort at all to hunt down BLM rioters except for some of the worst in a few states.
Absolutely crazy gap in effort.
Throwaway05
1d ago
I have some family and friends who work in DC as part of national Democrat political strategy.
They are comically far left, woke, and every extreme stereotype.
Outright caricatures who literally run out of the room if you push back against their political positions in the most mild way.
faul_sname
Fuck around once, find out once. Do it again, now it's science.
1d ago
Truth social is over thataway if you would like somewhere you can post without worrying about discourse norms.
In particular, I would argue that outside your odd lizardman, none of the smarter MAGA people believe the narrative. I think it highly unlikely that Charlie Kirk thought, in his heart of hearts, that Biden was committing treason for which his countrymen would sent him to the gallows if they knew about it. But the narrative played really well with the idiots, so he spread it.
...How closely have you been following the revelations about Russiagate/Crossfire Hurricane/Hillary's email server/Biden's Corruption/Hunter's Laptop over the last year? My working understanding of that mess (and it seems to me there's a fair amount of evidence that it is a coherent, single mess) is that we now have solid evidence that Obama, Hillary and Biden worked together to suborn the national security apparatus and turn it into both a partisan weapon against their political enemies, as well as a shield to their own serious malfeasance. As with, say, Watergate, but amusingly never ever with any Democrat scandal, the initial crimes seem vastly overshadowed by the institutional corruption used to cover them, which at this point appear to have run so deep and for so long that they put the viability of our political system itself into question.
More generally, there's this amusing pattern I see, where people are very willing to discuss things under a frame where Trump and MAGA are fascistic white supremacists who must be stopped by any means necessary, as we did here for years, and are also willing to discuss things under a frame where actually there's no difference between the parties, everyone's corrupt so none of the details really matter, but certainly are not willing to discuss under the frame where, no, actually it's the democrats who are uniquely, intolerably bad. Maybe it's just bias speaking, but it seems to me that this excluded third option is going to get harder and harder to exclude the more evidence accumulates. And while within the context of debate and one's own mind denial might be an invincible shield, it's less effective in the real world if sufficient numbers of the public simply stop being willing to cooperate with your tribe in any way ever again.
UwU
1d ago
Let me first say what he did was wrong and I support him exiting the race and resigning from any public office he currently holds. I hate politicians like him.
But I don't really care that partisans on the motte are pearl clutching. If Trump said similar things in a leaked private chat, like calling Kamala's kids little communists or whatever, or he'd shoot Hilary twice, you think that would move the needle at all? Nope. We are far beyond that point.
ThenElection
1d ago
I would say hot and frumpy women both attack and defend men, without a strong trend. The bigger difference is that men don't value the defenses offered by the frumpy women, while they excuse the attacks of the hot women. So the frumpy women get more of the blame for misandry, while the hot women remain simped for.
faul_sname
Fuck around once, find out once. Do it again, now it's science.
1d ago
A Democrat Trump would have to run roughshod through his own party, goring their oxen, while overwhelming any party resistance.
Yeah, that sure does look like the likely outcome of a Democrat Trump equivalent. I expect a nominally Democrat Trump would be at least as bad for the country as the nominally Republican one we have now, I'd guess even worse.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
1d ago
A saw a twitter post responding to some leftwinger who was failing to comprehend why people cared that Charlie Kirk was murdered. The clapback went something like "Imagine this happened to someone you actually feel empathy for, like a black rapist".
A core part of the problem that @WhiningCoil was posting about downthread is that if the Democrat Party as a whole got the Biblical choice to spare my white/Jewish teenage daughter, or the non-white career criminal who would otherwise rape and kill her, I would bet they'd save the criminal. Maybe that's a false perspective based on their fringe. The odds are definitely not 10-0, but maybe it's below 5-5, maybe 2-8.
But with the Republicans it's 0-10, no matter the race or Islamicity of the criminal. Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent, and some people have been openly reveling in cruelty for 5+ years.
Iconochasm
2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.
1d ago
There are many video compilations arguing otherwise. I actually think it's at least partially causal - the less attractive women can get a septum piercing and a few other disfigurements and start openly hating men as a way of protecting the ego.
DirtyWaterHotDog
1d ago
Democrats don't want you dead, because the democrats asking for your head don't have any understanding of violence.
I live in the bluest of blue America, and I've heard a few people express glee at the idea of Trump's death. It comes from the oddest of places. The nicest boomer white ladies, the tiniest granola girlies, men so feminine they couldn't hurt a bee. (Literally. I recently happened to be a +1 for a friends event where they tried to resuscitate a bee. Safe to say, I held my tongue the entire afternoon. Wonderful people and not an ounce of violence in their body). Look at Jay Jones, he's the lowest testosterone black man I've seen in my life. What a woman dressed as a man would look like.
My point is, they shout about killing Trump because they are unable to imagine the act of killing, punching or drawing blood. Even when they express this emotion, it's usually with a glint of mischief rather than anger. They're not just angry at him. They are also indulging the kid inside of them that never got to say the word 'fuck'. It's no surprise that many of the left-wing terrorists have grown up in dysfunctional conservative families or are gamers. These communities have a clearer relationship with violence as children, having coopted vanilla progressivism at a later age.
They are angry at Trump. But not in a "bullied kids shoots up a school" way. But in a, "I cry in every therapy session" way.
I like to believe I am well adjusted. But, I had my fair share of fighting violent bullies in school. Once in a while you push someone too hard and they fall on their head or you misplace a punch and you see a man in true pain. In a "my actions could have caused real harm and I'm lucky I missed" sort of way. Life flashes in front of your face. It snaps you out of anger, and leaves you with a pit in your stomach. The slightest glimpse into real violence leaves a lasting negative taste in one's mouth (unless you're a psychopath). That's why well adjusted men don't make violent threats easily. The mental return damage of living with hurting someone is not worth it. It isn't a good feeling.
You need not be worried about the ones making threats. Not this group. Now, if demographics with a relationship with violence start saying the same things.......then, call in the national guard.
quiet_NaN
1d ago
Some among them, surely. The Qanon true believers who think he is fighting a secret war against the adrenochrome-addicted establishment.
Still, my model of the median Trump voter is that they know that Trump is bullshitting all day long and corrupt AF. But the establishment hating him so much makes it all worth it.
In particular, I would argue that outside your odd lizardman, none of the smarter MAGA people believe the narrative. I think it highly unlikely that Charlie Kirk thought, in his heart of hearts, that Biden was committing treason for which his countrymen would sent him to the gallows if they knew about it. But the narrative played really well with the idiots, so he spread it.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
The worst offender for an American university name has to be Colgate, to me Colgate is what I brush my teeth with...
It is, in fact, the same Colgate family.
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
Direct advocacy of violence goes well beyond what "stochastic terrorism" was supposed to be. The idea of stochastic terrorism is basically that saying bad things about people -- not advocacy of violence, just that the people were terrible in some way -- might make crazies kill them.
Grant_us_eyes
1d ago
I've begun to actively loathe twitter, because so many good source of information are now trapped in twisted, labyrinthian multi-threaded posts that are a bitch and a half to store offline.
Anyways, here's a good thread that breaks down the entire charlottesville debacle. Take away from that what you want, but I personally feel this was yet another case of a political lynching.
Oh, and one of the protesters blatantly admitted to brandishing rifle at the guy earlier.
Listening
1d ago
Hm. That's definitely part of it. But I don't think it's the whole thing.
When the rule was compassion and conversation, I supported the dems as a matter of principle. I didn't personally benefit from most of the work. When the rule became "actually, it's okay to hate people for being born with the wrong immutable characteristics," I just supported whoever was in my own interest. "Do as the Romans do."
I'm not convinced that's a reversible transition. Maybe it's minority enough to say "irrelevant."
The_Nybbler
If you win the rat race you're still a rat. But you're also still a winner.
1d ago
This – perceived lameness – is pervasive across the west. The sad thing (for democrats in the US, or progressives or liberals or lefties or whatever they’re called elsewhere) is that in general they are compassionate people, with empathy towards others, especially those who have fallen through the cracks, and they’re interested more in civic society than in individual gain, but online media has no proven way of effectively showing the OTHERS whom they have compassion for.
No, they aren't. That's their self-image, and their advertisement of themselves. But their compassion is very selective. They feel for the criminal, but not really the victim. They feel even less for the would-be victim who defends himself. They are willing to let civic society fall apart rather than harm the wretched who are actively destroying it. They feel for the member of some designated oppressed group, but not for the member of some designated oppressor group. Even when a member of that oppressor group is in fact being harmed, and begs for their compassion, they will tell them that they are the oppressors and deserve what they were getting. I've seen that happen, and be widely supported, in a progressive mileu.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
1d ago
It’s the same as the problem with Jihadists. Sure only 10% want to kill people, but it’s not like the other 90% are willing to do anything about it. The TDS faction is certainly bad, but im not seeing anything that suggests that the rest of the liberals are opposed to political violence in anything other than the fig-leaf sense. They just don’t want the blame, they don’t want to be tarnished by association with those TDS factions. But they also can’t muster the energy to stop it, or even to say this is wrong, full stop..
Rov_Scam
1d ago
You are aware that the DNC chair is a white man and 5 of the 11 board seats are also men, 7 of 13 if you include the ranking House and Senate leaders who serve on the board? You are also aware that local Democratic committees are composed of 1 man and 1 woman per precinct by rule? And I don't expect you to be aware of this, but in Allegheny County at least, the local board is mostly straight, white men. Are you also aware that these positions are elected and there are usually plenty of vacancies due to lack of interest and unwillingness to actually put the work in, and that it's not that hard to get on the ballot? Do you really think that men are turning away from the Democratic Party because they can't get work with them?
hydroacetylene
1d ago
In practice, that kind of partisanship results in ultra-pillarized societies like eg Lebanon. Red children would go to red elementary schools and blue children to blue ones. This is basically a law of nature about ultra-pillarized societies and not something subject to negotiation based on the structure of that society's schooling.
ThenElection
1d ago
As an unrelated aside, it's very interesting to see Klein and especially Yglesias struggle with '24. They both recognize there are real issues in the Democratic Party now, beyond bad marketing and the failure of the deplorable electorate not seeing its obvious superiority. But even they have to carefully avoid triggering those same antibodies I mentioned earlier. I think there's a reasonable chance Yglesias eventually steps on a mine and gets fully excommunicated.
hydroacetylene
1d ago
And then he goes on to put Confederate generals in the same league as the founding fathers, just so you know whose side he's really on.
That of his supporters?
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
1d ago
They aren’t just conformists, in many cases they’re the old church ladies telling you anything you find fun is somehow wrong. You can’t enjoy foreign food, clothing, or music. You can’t like your own either, you can’t like traditionally masculine things, or traditional things in general. It’s just a narrow rather boring and uninteresting slice of things that democrats think are okay to like unironically.
hydroacetylene
1d ago
What young, working class males- most of them nontraditional Republican voters- have told me about why they're voting for Trump now:
- He's not afraid to offend people, and sometimes that's what stops politicians from getting stuff done. This is, essentially, just true, even if you can argue that Trump isn't a solution.
- No tax on overtime/tips. This is, in a lot of the working class's view, the first thing the government has ever done to make their lives easier*. And young men are not generally beneficiaries of welfare, so in their specific case this is literally the first cash handout they've ever been promised in exchange for their vote.
- He's not beholden to Israel- while he's less pro-Israel than I would have thought he was going to be this time last year, I admit I'm pretty baffled by this one.
- Kamala this that and the other. Fact remains, democrats can't seem to stop and consider 'this chick is an awful screaming karen who can't even speak coherently' as a reason not to make her a party frontman.
- LGBT, especially the T. Most of these guys are 'pro gay rights', even if they maybe think 'little fags' are just wrong. They're upset about pushing LGBT indoctrination everywhere, and they don't like trans.
*There's also a tendency to identify Trump with stimmy checks or extra unemployment for laid-off blue collar workers- even if these people understand that these policies were bad for the economy, 'the government was just gonna give it to rich people anyways'.
I should be clear that the persecution fantasy here is specifically that young men are at risk of having their IP addresses traced by a visual basic GUI written by The Liberals unless they use a VPN (which they are all doing), hence why I quoted "young men have been using VPNs to protect their identity from liberal attempts to make their life worse for so long."
I don't argue that doing stuff you don't want people to find out about under your real name is inadvisable. It's just that VPNs are neither necessary or sufficient to avoid this situation.
You, personally, have an assuredly principled line in the sand -- or a consideration of factors -- that allows you to move abacus beads on the appropriate exchange-pogrom language scale. I agree that this is not pogrom language. I don't think the gap is as wide on this reportedly accidental, unprompted exchanged, but my point was the accurate placement on the pogrom scale is not so important to the politics.
We The People transcended opprobrium. The Motte is not supposed to partake in the enlightenment, so in that regard you deserve kudos for working on the details. There is a lot of grievance bleeding in. Voters, not party, will get the chance to decide how much such things matter anyway. That's probably for the best or worst.
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